With which countries is it impossible to follow history?

[Davetheterror]

Sweden OP.

what do you expect? paradox is swedish... still they arent as op as some other nation

 

[unmerged(788416)]

France and Russia are impossible to archive with identical starting conditions.
If you start as France in a Civil war, you'll never be able to defeat a coalition of Austria, Prussia, Great Britain, Spain, Portugal, Sardinia, Naples, Sicily, the Dutch Republik as well as some HRE and Italian minors. (War of the First Coalition)
Nor will the help of Spain, Denmark-Norway, Switzerland and Holland give you a victory in the fight against Rebels, Austria, the United Kingdom, the Russian Empire, Portugal, the Kingdom of Naples, Malta, the Ottoman Empire and various HRE minors. (War of the Second Coalition)
Even the War of the Third Coalition is debatable, where France, Bavaria, Wurtemberg, Spain, Holland and northern Italy fought vs the Holy Roman Empire, the Russian Empire, the Kingdoms Naples, Sweden and Sicily. Oh, and Rebels of course.
The War of the Fourth Coalition is doable, as is the War of the Fifth Coalition.

Now the same for Russia
During Napoleons invasion, the Russian Empire was at war against the French Empire, a restored Poland, Italy, Swiss, Spain, Prussia, Austria and nearly all HRE minors. (Which later turned into the War of the Sixth coalition, when Austria, Prussia and Spain switched sides, the British Empire, Sweden, Sicily and Sardinia joined... and at the very end most of the HRE minors also switched sides)

Why? Because EU4 does not support systems like secret truces, betrayel in the middle of the war, defection...

 

[Less]

So in other words you can annex 80-90% of Ming in one war with massive OE, then break truce immediately, eat your stab hits, storm remaining Ming provinces ASAP, annex and release Ming as vassal before infinite rebels rip you apart?

Should be possible.

In fact the new rebel system might make it easy. A quick test shows that rebel progress only ticks up on the month, and the max it can tick up by is 25% each month, so you have ~3 months to siege before the stacks of hundreds of rebels.

 

[Aries666]

Should be possible.

In fact the new rebel system might make it easy. A quick test shows that rebel progress only ticks up on the month, and the max it can tick up by is 25% each month, so you have slightly less than 4 months before the stacks of hundreds of rebels.

I thought rebel progress ticks at max 5%/month at 100% unrest, does OE increase this?

 

[Chamboozer]

As Ottomans you need everything from Algeria to Iraq, Yemen to Hungary, all within 100 years. Even if you can get the land, doing it in a historical way isn't possible. The Mamluk Sultanate was taken as much by internal co-option as by brute force, Algeria was entirely diplomatic after Barbarossa's coup, and Hungary was taken over only after a process of vassalage and civil war between the Habsburgs and Zapolyai.

 

[Chewy Yui]

France and Russia are impossible to archive with identical starting conditions.
If you start as France in a Civil war, you'll never be able to defeat a coalition of Austria, Prussia, Great Britain, Spain, Portugal, Sardinia, Naples, Sicily, the Dutch Republik as well as some HRE and Italian minors. (War of the First Coalition)
Nor will the help of Spain, Denmark-Norway, Switzerland and Holland give you a victory in the fight against Rebels, Austria, the United Kingdom, the Russian Empire, Portugal, the Kingdom of Naples, Malta, the Ottoman Empire and various HRE minors. (War of the Second Coalition)
Even the War of the Third Coalition is debatable, where France, Bavaria, Wurtemberg, Spain, Holland and northern Italy fought vs the Holy Roman Empire, the Russian Empire, the Kingdoms Naples, Sweden and Sicily. Oh, and Rebels of course.
The War of the Fourth Coalition is doable, as is the War of the Fifth Coalition.

Now the same for Russia
During Napoleons invasion, the Russian Empire was at war against the French Empire, a restored Poland, Italy, Swiss, Spain, Prussia, Austria and nearly all HRE minors. (Which later turned into the War of the Sixth coalition, when Austria, Prussia and Spain switched sides, the British Empire, Sweden, Sicily and Sardinia joined... and at the very end most of the HRE minors also switched sides)

Why? Because EU4 does not support systems like secret truces, betrayel in the middle of the war, defection...

It also doesn't represent battles where in like, a small force would hold off a big force or whatever, or a nation not committing its ENTIRE army to the conflict.

AI and Players just send everything they have en masse

 

[birincikalite]

I'd love to see that annexing the Mamluks in one go event would fire more often... I mean, it was done historically so if Austria/France gets Burgundy in %100 of games where Burgundy is unlucky, the Ottomans could have the event THAT FIRES MORE OFTEN for that special CB too. Because, you know sometimes Persia and Venice just don't exist and they ruin things.

 

[Redwallzyl]

the dutch. mainly because you can be in a perpetual semi war for 80 years to crush all there attempts at expansion and steal there territory at the same time and with there crazy colonization pattern constantly trying to steal all of the cape and Indonesia. not to mention their much larger army and navy's. i mean holy crap the cn's are powerful at the 80 years war start. Spain and Portugal always end up allied too. I'm working on colonizing the historic areas whale crushing there far flung fleets but i have to resort to console commands to keep them from colonizing the cape and stuff before i can even reach it. the colonization AI is still all over the place but much better. i wish they had a "preferred colonization area" for each conutry so they colonize more sensibly. I'm tired of kicking Portugal out of Texas.

 

[Sunspawn]

the dutch. mainly because you can be in a perpetual semi war for 80 years to crush all there attempts at expansion and steal there territory at the same time and with there crazy colonization pattern constantly trying to steal all of the cape and Indonesia. not to mention their much larger army and navy's. i mean holy crap the cn's are powerful at the 80 years war start. Spain and Portugal always end up allied too. I'm working on colonizing the historic areas whale crushing there far flung fleets but i have to resort to console commands to keep them from colonizing the cape and stuff before i can even reach it. the colonization AI is still all over the place but much better. i wish they had a "preferred colonization area" for each conutry so they colonize more sensibly. I'm tired of kicking Portugal out of Texas.

I wish AI decided on a region to colonize and STUCK WITH IT. Kinda tired of seeing Portugal have 2-3 provinces in Brazil, Mexico, all over the Eastern Seaboard, South Africa and god knows elsewhere...

 

[Less]

I thought rebel progress ticks at max 5%/month at 100% unrest, does OE increase this?

I believe it's cumulative past 100% unrest. 150% unrest = first you have 100% chance to get 5%, then a 50% chance to get another 5%.

But it appears to cap out at 500% unrest, or 25% rebel progress per month.

All I can say is that in a quick test where I loaded up Russia and did "annex MNG" in the console, every rebel faction across the nation ticked up at 25% a month and then rebelled simultaneously.

 

[anomanderus]

The short lived "South African Republic" created by colonists at the cape sometime during the Napoleonic era, represented in game by a peasant revolt in the Cape

You can't play as them and lose as they did historically, so it is impossible to follow history with them

The Inca empire should still have holdings until 1572, but I'm not sure if it does in game and in game it would probably be impossible to lose your capital in a war and then immediately begin another war with the Spanish to retake it

The Iroquois can't reach their historic expansion into Canada and the conquest of other Iroquois tribes not part of the league to build up their population base

No Jewish kingdom of Semien either, so can't do historical losing with them either

 

[Blood4u]

I do think that impossible to follow history is the Moldavian Nation.
1.For starters it wasn't vassal to Poland in 1444
2.Altough alot argue on wheter Stephan the Great(Stefan cel Mare) won 36 battles,46 or only 24 the fact stands that he only lost 2 of his battles against the ottomans.Yes He won all the battles against Hungary,Poland and Just lost 2 Against the Ottoman with the tiny little Moldavia.He beat the Hungarias king ass and assaulted Poland garissons and won.

Anyone that can do that is a real boss.To be fairly honest it still complexses me to why Paradox never made a 5/5/5/5 general for Moldavia ,this guy totally deserves this tribute.

Anyone that can make a playtrough,keep Moldavia as small as it is now and win 90-95% of their battles against all big neighbours alone,cause he bearly had help once from the outside is a God,it's like winning a harder achievement then the Three Mountains.

 

[Krajzen]

I do think that impossible to follow history is the Moldavian Nation.
1.For starters it wasn't vassal to Poland in 1444
2.Altough alot argue on wheter Stephan the Great(Stefan cel Mare) won 36 battles,46 or only 24 the fact stands that he only lost 2 of his battles against the ottomans.Yes He won all the battles against Hungary,Poland and Just lost 2 Against the Ottoman with the tiny little Moldavia.He beat the Hungarias king ass and assaulted Poland garissons and won.

Anyone that can do that is a real boss.To be fairly honest it still complexses me to why Paradox never made a 5/5/5/5 general for Moldavia ,this guy totally deserves this tribute.

Anyone that can make a playtrough,keep Moldavia as small as it is now and win 90-95% of their battles against all big neighbours alone,cause he bearly had help once from the outside is a God,it's like winning a harder achievement then the Three Mountains.

+1, the same with Albania and Wallachia

The Iroquois can't reach their historic expansion into Canada and the conquest of other Iroquois tribes not part of the league to build up their population base

While I also believe Iroquis are impossible to recreate historically, it is IMHO in exactly opposite way - there are too easy in EU4 they are bureaucratic state able to dominate the entire eastern native America in like 70 years AND beat European powers while historically the entire Iroquis Confederation had less than 50 000 people...

Another historically 'impossible to recreate' nation - Dai Viet. Come on, in 1444 try to fight a war with Ming without any help. In such conflicts Dai Viet was winning. The same thing with Afghanistan etc.

 

[wingzero890]

Forming Qing should really give cores across Ming, so It's actually possible to take more than 4 provinces in a war without massive over-extension.

Whilst on the subject of Qing, here is my progress to establish the full extent of Manchu rule over China and Asia

Spoiler

1821 Qinq

My progress

Shun is vassal so is Yarkand

Forming Qing should give you a Burgundy Inheritance type event where the Ming emperor kills himself and the entire north and central part of Ming become Qing territory with cores and no nationalism.

The Southern part of Ming would remain as a holdout under a new ruler to replace the dead Ming Emperor (Zhu Yujian), and it's tag would change to Zhu. Zhu would retain Ming ideas but lose the celestial empire government as well as factions and inward perfection.

 

[Chewy Yui]

Forming Qing should give you a Burgundy Inheritance type event where the Ming emperor kills himself and the entire north and central part of Ming become Qing territory with cores and no nationalism.

The Southern part of Ming would remain as a holdout under a new ruler to replace the dead Ming Emperor (Zhu Yujian), and it's tag would change to Zhu. Zhu would retain Ming ideas but lose the celestial empire government as well as factions and inward perfection.

Qing should really have some form of Mandate of Heaven too. We all know it sucks, but, the Manchu's used it to support the rule of its emperors as much as any other Imperial Dynasty

 

[User4035]

Well to get Charles V Empire you would have to start as Austria.
Burgundian Inheritance happens.
Iberian wedding happens.
Get habsburgs on throne of Castile/Spain
Get a PU with Spain.

Then you sell your burgundian lowlands to Spain.

Pretty easy but very luck based.


And as for colonizing - Much of south america shown on the maps under Spanish rule was sparsely populated. So as long as you have a most of hte coastline colonized, a few gaps won't matter.

And conquering mexico - well Cortez took the aztec capital within 2 years but subjugating the surrounding lands took a few years. Not too long because disease took out 95% of the native population - not much resistance after that. And a couple of native tribes were allied.

 

[wingzero890]

Qing should really have some form of Mandate of Heaven too. We all know it sucks, but, the Manchu's used it to support the rule of its emperors as much as any other Imperial Dynasty

That would be an interesting decision for players. Do you take Beijing, adopt the mantle of Emperor, and claim the Mandate of Heaven as the Qing dynasty? You'd get a ton of territory (in this hypothetical Burgundy Inheritance type event) but would also be hit with inward perfection and factions.

Or do you forge your own destiny for the Manchu and decline to take the imperial throne? You'd have to core all the lands you take in China, and deal with rebels, but you wouldn't be crippled by factions and the inward perfection debuff. (AKA, what it's like now for Qing)

 

[sti]

WIth Ottomans annexing Egypt before 1519 is not hard at all. Even with 3-4 wars it isn't that hard as long as you pay close attention. First war at about 1450, ideally you will grab the non-Mameluk Syrian core first and release Syria. You take Gaza and the other province to cut off Palestine/Syria from Egypt, use the rest of war score to either grab Jerusalem and feed provinces to Syria or just grab Alexandria even without the claim. Simply because in next war everything in Levant will be super cheap to grab as it will count as overseas. So second war is launched with conquer Egypt (in the meantime fabricate claims on Palestinian provinces because you will lose the conquer Levant mission claims if you feed anything to Syria and besides you want the conquer Egypt mission) and you return the remaining Syrian cores to your vassal, grab the claims you fabricated in Palestine (both of these should be dirt cheap in WS) and use the rest of WS to ideally get a land connection from Gaza to Alexandria by taking the Nile delta provinces. It should be doable to annex within 50 years of start without any major exploits. And 75 is easy to achieve without much stress, matching historical annexation date. You just need to plan to start wars as soon as truce timer ends and everything after the first war is trivial and mostly just waiting for sieges to complete.

Does this splitting thing still work under 1.8?

I've done it in the past but playing 1.8 as Ethiopia I couldn't get it to work even after splitting the Mamluks in half so maybe they changed?

 

[Chewy Yui]

That would be an interesting decision for players. Do you take Beijing, adopt the mantle of Emperor, and claim the Mandate of Heaven as the Qing dynasty? You'd get a ton of territory (in this hypothetical Burgundy Inheritance type event) but would also be hit with inward perfection and factions.

Or do you forge your own destiny for the Manchu and decline to take the imperial throne? You'd have to core all the lands you take in China, and deal with rebels, but you wouldn't be crippled by factions and the inward perfection debuff. (AKA, what it's like now for Qing)

Maybe I am wrong, but isn't the reason for factions due to the Mings policy of "fuck the outside world, we are perfect" sorta thing? As far As I know, the Manchu dynasty wasn't like that, so factions, and "Inward Perfection" would fit, and, tbh, it would basically become playing Ming with a name and flag change.

I dont know, Im not an expert, but thats what game developers are for, right?

 

[Rubidium]

Maybe I am wrong, but isn't the reason for factions due to the Mings policy of "fuck the outside world, we are perfect" sorta thing? As far As I know, the Manchu dynasty wasn't like that, so factions, and "Inward Perfection" would fit, and, tbh, it would basically become playing Ming with a name and flag change.

I dont know, Im not an expert, but thats what game developers are for, right?

Pretty sure the main reason for factions was "otherwise Ming will conquer all the way to Europe."