With more and more special units being added, I think we need a unit overhaul

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

ZivDero

Colonel
42 Badges
Oct 28, 2014
871
491
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
First the Cossacks, then the Manchu Banners, the Streltsy, and now the Janissaries...

So firstly, I think we need a new recruitment system:
-You don't just recruit troops wherever the hell you want, instead you use a special recruitment dialogue.
-You select the type of troops you want (inf/cav/art + levies/professional), how many of them you want and where do you want them to appear (in case of professinal army only, more discussed later).

Then there should be a new unit system (maybe tied to professionalism) in 2 stages:

Stage 1: most of the army is levy.
-In this stage the backbone of your army is the usual troops we are all used to, now called the levies.
-Levies reinforce out of your manpower pool right away and figt just like they do now.
-Using the new recuit window, you request a certain amount of levy raised, you select around where you want it raised and they pop up all over the place for you.

Stage 2: more professinal armies
-In this second stage levies are gradually phased out by professional troops. In case of Russia they could be the Streltsy, in case of the Ottomans - Janissaries, etc. You can get there troops in stage 1 too, but only as your elite troops, and not as your main army.
-Professional armies are recruited in forts. This not only gives forts another use, but also solves the problem of your enemy somehow managing to train a whole new professinal army in your countryside. As with levies, using the dialogue you choose how much rmy do you want, and what forts to build them in.
-Professional armies don't use your uisual manpower pool, but rather use a separate "Trained Warriors" manpower pool. You get these by converting your usual "Untrained people". By default, the conversion rate is very small (thus limiting the number of professional troops you have), however as time goes on, you get ideas and your professionalism increases it becomes faster and faster.

All of this should be accompanied with rally points, collecting all the troops you trained.

Now mercenaires:
-This system would be a bit more CK2-like, but not a complete copy. You recruit mercenaries using the same window as all the other troops, however you can only raise a certain number of the per region (the big ones).
-Mercenaries reinforce by recruiting locals willing to go on adventures. As this is no mass recruitment, it goes much slower than usual.

EDIT: Forgot to meantion, professional army obviously fights much better and can slaughter levies very often.
 
Last edited:

Kagemin

Major
86 Badges
Mar 8, 2014
671
567
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • March of the Eagles
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
To me that sounds like it would make things unneccessarily complex and/or just different for only very little gain in gameplay.
 

Lacost

First Lieutenant
36 Badges
Sep 25, 2015
249
75
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
To me that sounds like it would make things unneccessarily complex and/or just different for only very little gain in gameplay.

As I understand this could actually change a lot.

Such a system with 2 tiers of units would mimic historic armies much better than the current system. Take Sweden in the Great Northern War against Denmark, PLC and Russia. Sweden, despite being outnumbered in almost every battle, manages to win again and again and again. Only the brutal Russian Winter was able to stop the swedish Juggernaut.

The Swedes (amongst other factors) won because they used battle seasoned, highly professional troops against mostly untrained levies. Even against all odds Swedens troops were still victorious. Once this core army of Sweden fell, the nation could no longer muster enough professional troops to even defend itself and eventually lost the war. Disclaimer: (This is a very, short and oversimplified depiction of the events of the great northern war.)

In EU4 you are only unable to defend yourself once you are out of manpower and have no money left. A stackwipe in most cases is even good for the wiped country because they get half the manpower back. However in reality, raising a new army from new conscripts leaves no time to effectively train them which is why such a hastily recruited army shouldn't fight as good as a professionally trained one.

 

Basterbane

Captain
37 Badges
Jul 22, 2013
449
146
  • Magicka 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings III Referal
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Surviving Mars
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
I would start with adding special units to macro builder. I saw a player doing Manchu Banner achievement. He had to waste like 100k manpower to build 100 units of normal cav just to be able to get Banner Infantry. Worst of all is that he had Banners all over the world where he colonised (killing natives to flip culture to Manchu).
Not sure how Ottoman troops would be handled with macro builder as they cost MP. Template style "rise x units for the low price of 50 MP"? :D

Alternative is having an option to rise all banners (other special units) from one province windows and choose what kind of unit type they are.