Wishlist of fixes to reduce division spam & snowballing

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Michael Gladius

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Division Spam is a constant complaint in the forums, as is snowballing/steamrolling, and I would like to pitch several fixes from the "Suggestions" Forum to address both problems.

At its core, division spam is mathematically ideal for the AI, as is template spam. The disadvantages of overloading supply lines are overcome by the fact that sheer quantity makes it harder for a smaller, more historically-accurate force to overcome them. Snowballing is caused by the equipment functioning like fire-and-toss-aside panzerfausts, with no differentiation between supply consumed daily versus irregularly.

Manpower Reserves

The first way to cut down on division spam is with a dynamic cap on how many troops/battalions can be on the map. In-game, there are conscription laws, but beyond that there is no reason to not put every last man in uniform and deploy the entire population. Having a second law, this time focused on the ratio of active-duty:reserves, will introduce economic penalties for maintaining a massive active-duty army, and discourage spam for the sake of spam. These economic laws would stack, so that universal conscription and activating all reserves will be doubly detrimental.

Tactical reserves

In contrast to manpower reserves reducing division spam, tactical reserves would reduce steamrolling. In BBA, the developers added a new toggle feature for how far away units will shuffle on the battle line. This is a good feature, but tactical reserves as a toggle feature would make the line 2 provinces deep, instead of 1. Most modern armies switched to defense in depth during the war, as it was difficult to stop combined-arms attacks with the proverbial "thin red line." A second line has a greater chance of stopping an attack from steamrolling, as it counterattacks exhausted units with fresh ones.

Tactical reserves would also incentivize the AI to build more mobile divisions, since they'd get priority for the 2nd layer. This will trim back spamming dismounted divisions.

Logarithmic vs exponential penalties

One big problem with the game's mechanics is that dismounted infantry are too powerful, which encourages spam. Motorized infantry IRL drove in circles around dismounted infantry, and could recover faster and keep beating the former to the punch. In-game, there is no appreciable advantage of motorizing except for speed between provinces, which can be thwarted by spamming massive, 28,000-man divisions and cramming them in the path of the attacker (causing the trucks' wheels to clog on all the bodies and grinding them to a halt). Thus, it is proposed that dismounted penalties (measured over distance "x") be logarithmic (i.e., 10^x) while mobile units have exponential penalties (2^x). This, combined with higher recovery rates for mobile units, will give more historical-realistic results (such as Italy not being able to steamroll 700 km through the desert to capture Cairo) and make mobile divisions more cost-effective. Yes, the AI can still spam dismounted swarms, but now they'd be chewed up faster and be less-capable of withstanding sustained, higher-tempo/more-frequent hammerblows from more-expensive mobile divisions. Trucks won WWI and WWII.

Consumable Supply

A second way to counter steamrolling is with consumable supply. This would be a bar like equipment (orange) and ORG (green), eliminating the need for new technologies or production lines, but would enable divisions to run out of fuel (immobilizing them), ammo (making it impossible to fight), and/or snivel gear (which will cause manpower losses while experiencing attrition). This mechanic would eliminate steamrolling as divisions run low on supply, and cause armies to seesaw instead.

Tactics would also affect this, meaning that some of the more effective tactics would eat up ammo faster, resulting in short-term gains but be unsustainable in the long-term.

Supply depots use manpower

Division spam can be counteracted by requiring supply depots (including airfields) to use recruitable manpower. The game currently functions like "Starship Troopers," where divisions are almost entirely combat troops and supply is handled by civilians (contractors?). This is unrealistic, and means that both players/AI don't have to balance the need for combat/non-combat demands. IRL, Germany mobilized 17 million men to fight the war, and ran out of troops after losing 5 million. In-game, Germany can mobilize all 17 million as combat troops and lose 10+ million before losing.

Units in Low Supply should be wholly dependent upon operations

Attrition and low supply are army-stoppers IRL, but the game also needs a way to replicate those armies which kept going even after outrunning their supply lines. The current balancing act doesn't stop dismounted troops from marching far beyond what they could realistically do. This should be replaced with a system wherein troops in attrition/low-supply cannot move forward or defend (retreating is obviously easier) unless their army is using an operation such as "Extra Supplies," "Last Stand," "Probing Attack," etc.

By making these extra efforts cost command power (which uses Hitler's red telephone from the Stalingrad campaign, hint hint), then armies would achieve a better balance between realistic logistics and sheer willpower without the latter being free of cost.

"Evacuation" Operation

One more reason why the AI will cram in more spam divisions is because there is no way to save an army by dumping equipment and hightailing it out of an encirclement. Instead, every army fights to extinction like the Japanese, and so Britain can't evacuate Dunkirk or Germany's 1st Panzer Army escape from Hube's Pocket.

Adding a new operation "Evacuate," and/or "Fighting Retreat," would enable players and AI to save their armies by sacrificing equipment. Programming the AI to be more or less concerned with casualties (it can also correlate to ideology) will encourage said AI to use this more often.




Thoughts? Counter-Proposals? How would you like to cut down on spam and steamrolling?
 
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marcelo r. r.

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Enough with limitations, make these "variables" for AI only, so it don't keep doing stupid things.
But i agree on motorized, its make no sense atm, and in worst cases i guess its loses more equipment than normal div.

the best way to deal with division spam: don't play beyond 1950 and quit.
 

Michael Gladius

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Enough with limitations, make these "variables" for AI only, so it don't keep doing stupid things.
But i agree on motorized, its make no sense atm, and in worst cases i guess its loses more equipment than normal div.

the best way to deal with division spam: don't play beyond 1950 and quit.

I'm coming from the "toggle Features" school of thought. Being able to switch back and forth enables lots of combos with only a few tools, and is less arbitrary than flat caps.
 

marcelo r. r.

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I'm coming from the "toggle Features" school of thought. Being able to switch back and forth enables lots of combos with only a few tools, and is less arbitrary than flat caps.
to be fair, the "tatical reserves" idea, have potential to be a big big stuff, and should be looked.

specially we atm don't have comeback mechanics.
we can do it "manually" as player keeping some divisions on "homeland".
but the AI just throw everything.

when No Step Back come out, i started enjoying the "pause moment" on barbarrosa operation, so i take 6 months to work on supply lines/troops resting, i had expectations that some "tatical reserve" like mechanic was coming in that xpac.