Wishes

[Toio]

Well since there seems to be some disagreement considering government types I must suggest a compromise. Since the effects of the dp-sliders is enough to simulate different government types they can stay. And if the sliders move to a certain position you will get a nice little event stating that your country is now a monarchy/republic/bishopric etc. and a text appears in front of the name of your country saying "the republic of" or "the bishopric of" etc. Nothing will change except for your name. Everybody happy now??

For what benefit?

Is a monarchy better than a republic, is a bishopic better than a monarchy, please explain

 

[Toio]

Unless I am completely wrong, IMO this FTG is an extension on AGCEEP. If so, then to cease irrelevant arguments I suggest that the "rules/policy" of the AGCEEP be made available for all to read.

One of the main reasons the AGCEEP has lasted so long, ( apart the its events etc, ), is that it has maintained its core rules/policy in its game play.

 

[Third Angel]

You are partly wrong. FTG will include vanilla scenarios but AGCEEP will be bundled with it as a mod, like it always was. Of course, it will have to be adaptated to the new modding possibilities by volunteers (including you, Toio, I dare hope) and the new version will be available for free on the AGCEEP website when it's ready.

That said, FTG will remain faithful to the EU2 philosophy, Yoda has been clear enough about that, so I would suggest to people who want government types, national ideas, dynamic cores, random leaders or automatic armies reinforcement to go play EU3.

 

[Emp_Palpatine]

That's quite a strange way to have a discussion:
"you disagree with me, go play another game".

That's not the point.
HoI2 has different governments, each with maluses and bonuses. Could be the same for EU. I never asked for random monarch or whatever. What exist now (ie fantasy leader for Burgundy or Byzantium) could easily be expanded for government. Or even some "Estate General" monarch like Swiss "Tagtzung" for a republican France is possible.
I have always think other parts of EU2 are great, and I don't want automatic reinforcement or whatever. But the politics part of the game is currently underdevelopped. The US and Prussia not having the same bonuses and maluses would IMHO enhance the game.

But now, back to EU3.

 

[Third Angel]

That's quite a strange way to have a discussion:
"you disagree with me, go play another game".

To expand a bit.

I think DP sliders allow to define government types (and national ideas by the way) in a much more precise and subtle way than dozens of fancy cool names could ever achieve, especially once/if there are more of them and their effects are modable in FTG.

HoI2 has different governments, each with maluses and bonuses.

Well, go play HOI2 then.

 

[Emperor_krk]

Just like HoI2?
I wouldn't mind such a system indeed.

If I understand you correctly, it's mostly about fancy names, with no influence on gameplay whatsoever. I don't see any sense in that. And - what maluses or bonuses do you see possible for different (EU2 period!) government types? Everything has always been handled by DP sliders. I guess that the effect (names of governments) from HoI2 wouldn't be too hard to transfer to FTG, but - is it really necessary? I don't think so.

 

[Emp_Palpatine]

To expand a bit.

I think DP sliders allow to define government types (and national ideas by the way) in a much more precise and subtle way than dozens of fancy cool names could ever achieve, especially once/if there are more of them and their effects are modable in FTG.


Well, go play HOI2 then.

I don't fancy panzers!

 

[Emp_Palpatine]

If I understand you correctly, it's mostly about fancy names, with no influence on gameplay whatsoever. I don't see any sense in that. And - what maluses or bonuses do you see possible for different (EU2 period!) government types? Everything has always been handled by DP sliders. I guess that the effect (names of governments) from HoI2 wouldn't be too hard to transfer to FTG, but - is it really necessary? I don't think so.

Eye candys, as long as it's not a crappy 3D, useless moving waters or whatever are always welcome...

And I was thinking of stuffs about stability, royal mariages... Stuff like that, pretty much like EU3's that gave some bonuses according to governement and limited the choice of sliders because of the said government.

 

[Bizon]

The argument of fancy names is strong and it gives historical flavour. Apart from that, going on path of defining country identity through more and more settings (sliders, governments, national ideas...) doesn't bring much more gameplay-wise than we already have. Letting ahistorical governments in (France as merchant republic) brings in question of alternative monarchs and events. On the other side forcing a government and imposing slider constraints and modifiers means even stronger historical determinism. Without them it remains a cool flavour addition.
The last ditch of defense is using governments to set availability of such options as royal marriages, religious conversions, being elected as emperor. However it could be done individually for any country.

OK, now my second part of easy small "wishes" of changes that are so obvious they may be overlooked:

• pause under spacebar key!
• F12 -> "showid" command for showing province id's
• In EU2 when another country had their own vassal you couldn't diplovassalize it (http://www.paradoxian.org/eu2wiki/index.php/Vassalization); should it remain so?

 

[unmerged(40707)]

And I was thinking of stuffs about stability, royal mariages... Stuff like that, pretty much like EU3's that gave some bonuses according to governement and limited the choice of sliders because of the said government.

I understand this the same way but this is why I thought decision required discussion with players. It was nearly impossible to really discuss such important feature before the announcement of the game.

Don't forget our philosophy where player is more the Governement rather than an almighty god and already has to deal with monarch and some decisions he sometimes can't control.

 

[cool-toxic]

• In EU2 when another country had their own vassal you couldn't diplovassalize it (http://www.paradoxian.org/eu2wiki/index.php/Vassalization); should it remain so?

No it should be doable, and furthermore you should be able to invite your own vassals' vassals into your alliance, plus being able to invite you allies' vassals.

 

[Teodor]

For what benefit?

Is a monarchy better than a republic, is a bishopic better than a monarchy, please explain

Well personally I like the system as it is and see no point in changing it but since many posters want different types of governments, I suggested this as a compromise. I get to keep the sliders and they get fancy names!

 

[h.r.e.]

different types of governoments would be awesome

 

[Alexandru H.]

different types of governoments would be awesome

If you bring in different types of governments, you destroy the historical line of monarchs and introduce the randomness of EU3. While it may look nice, the philosophy of EU2 was never this.

 

[Emp_Palpatine]

It will introduce randomness only in certain matters, and perhaps not to a great extent:
A fictional republican non-revolutionnary France or Sweden or whatever could have the same immortal monarch like Switzeland has: Estates Generals, Parliaments, Senate, call it like you want.
We already have fictional monarchs for surviving countries, so it's acceptable too for usual republic that would be monarchies. These monarchs wouldn't be the EU3 random ones, but be on a list, like Burgundy or Byzantium ones are.

 

[chefkoch]

It will introduce randomness only in certain matters, and perhaps not to a great extent:
A fictional republican non-revolutionnary France or Sweden or whatever could have the same immortal monarch like Switzeland has: Estates Generals, Parliaments, Senate, call it like you want.
We already have fictional monarchs for surviving countries, so it's acceptable too for usual republic that would be monarchies. These monarchs wouldn't be the EU3 random ones, but be on a list, like Burgundy or Byzantium ones are.

Could be done via events. If domestic slider x,y and z have value u,v and w, then wake/sleep monarchs.

Also I'm not really clear on how you simulate different government types with religion tags.

Just with fancy names and the religion.csv
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9973625&postcount=26
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9959315&postcount=760

 

[unmerged(40707)]

have the same immortal monarch like Switzeland has

Switzerland doesn't have eternal monarch in AGCEEP...

 

[Emp_Palpatine]

Haven't played EU2 (of course with AGCEEP) since somewhat 18 months to two years... So some memories began to be quite confused. I indeed remembered some things about new monarchs for Switzerland, but can't recall if it was in my newly bought EUIII or EU2.

 

[unmerged(82381)]

Just with fancy names and the religion.csv
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9973625&postcount=26
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9959315&postcount=760

OK, I get it. Not really what anyone was proposing, but I salute your creativity anyway.

 

[ZhugeKongming]

Did teleportation technology exist at the time?

Err, I know you're trying to be snarky here, but I find the EU2 system of having to march an entire army just to reassign its commander to be much sillier. If the instantaneous nature of EU3's version bugs you so much, just make a one-month cooldown or something before the leader can be assigned to a new army from the leader pool.