Wish for "fluid" borders of a Kingdom

[Galleblære]

As Norway for example, I conquer the norhern pagan provinces such as Lappland etc.

However, after doing that, when I hover my mouse arrow over the province, they are shown to be part of the Kingdom of Sweden! Same goes for all of pagan Finland! That's absurd! Just because some nation historically conquered that area, why should CK, a game that prides itself by going "ahistorical" from the first day be so unnaturally confined in this regard?

What I propose: That the natural borders of the Kingdom aren't completly set. If I conquer Lappland as Norway, that should be part of MY Kingdom. Otherwise, as long as Sweden exists, they will have a claim on me, right?

 

[unmerged(3249)]

As Norway for example, I conquer the norhern pagan provinces such as Lappland etc.

However, after doing that, when I hover my mouse arrow over the province, they are shown to be part of the Kingdom of Sweden! Same goes for all of pagan Finland! That's absurd! Just because some nation historically conquered that area, why should CK, a game that prides itself by going "ahistorical" from the first day be so unnaturally confined in this regard?

What I propose: That the natural borders of the Kingdom aren't completly set. If I conquer Lappland as Norway, that should be part of MY Kingdom. Otherwise, as long as Sweden exists, they will have a claim on me, right?

I believe you haven't understood how it works

Areas under your control are part of your kingdom, not part of Sweden. What effect that "belongs to kingdom" has is with creating titles, lower level leaders becoming vassals of higher one, unsurping titles or when granting duke titles counts can go at same time too.

Creating titles: If you have 66% of provinces of given unclaimed title you can create it for yourself.

Becoming vassals: This is when low level leaders ask to become vassals. So no war needed. They only (?) do that for someone who has higher level title of their area.

Unsurping title: When you have 66% (?) of provinces of some title someone else owns you can unsurp it.

Granting titles: If you have extra duke title and some counts in that duchy area. And then if you grant duke title away those counts can become vassals of that duke. Was it that those counts who got their title after duke title has been created are vassals of person having that duke title?

Then those areas DO NOT have anything to do with claims or borders of nation.

 

[Martinus]

Precisely. You can find out who controls what on the political and relations map. The info that appears when you hover the mouse pointer over the province is only for the purpose of learning which province belong to which title (duchy and kingdom) - for the purpose of usurping or creating them.

 

[Galleblære]

But then it's rather strange that somebody conquering Finnish provinces should suddenly have a claim for the throne of Sweden right? Or that if my Lappland count gains independence, he will offer his vassalship within the first month to the King of Sweden.

Believe me, the "Kingdom borders" have a lot of effects.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

But then it's rather strange that somebody conquering Finnish provinces should suddenly have a claim for the throne of Sweden right? Or that if my Lappland count gains independence, he will offer his vassalship within the first month to the King of Sweden.

Well, if somebody conquers southern Iberia they will have ability to usurp various spanish kingdoms. This isn't an issue specifically with Sweden and Finland. But if the borders would be fluid, then you could never usurp any kingdoms and recreating would be rather tricky as well. Also I am fairly certain that the fluidity change you propose would be very major overhaul in the whole game and therefore nothing to have high hopes for. And that vassalship thingy needs revisiting anyway imo.

 

[Galleblære]

Well, my wish would be that IE Finland shouldn't be considered part of Sweden (or Denmark...or Norway) untill they conquer the area. As it is right now, it's a sneaky way to force the game along historic terms, when the premise is completly different.

 

[unmerged(2695)]

Pagan provinces belong to themselves. They become parts of your kingdom when you conquer them. As Norway you can do that before 1100. But I've not yet gotten a claim on Sweden by conquering Lappland and Finland.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Well, my wish would be that IE Finland shouldn't be considered part of Sweden (or Denmark...or Norway) untill they conquer the area. As it is right now, it's a sneaky way to force the game along historic terms, when the premise is completly different.

Well, it is only considered part of Sweden in regard of recreation and usurpation (and the re-vassalization thingy) and as all kingdom default areas are in province.csv I really doubt the fluidity thing will happen.

 

[Elmokki]

Finland shouldn't be considered to be part of any kingdom at all. Could a german noble claim himself king of Sweden if he controls Finland and few areas of swedish lapland?

 

[Yordlama]

For this particular issue, wouldn't a king of Finland be more appropriate then?

 

[Kliwarrior]

Finland shouldn't be considered to be part of any kingdom at all. Could a german noble claim himself king of Sweden if he controls Finland and few areas of swedish lapland?

You need much more than finland and swedish lapland.
For 66% of sweden (number of provinces, not 66% of territory) you need to control a great number of small mainland swedish provinces.
Anyway controlling finland helps a lot.