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Ijtzoi

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So, I went and did a thing...


I have a map of the Westlands from Robert Jordan's "The Wheel of Time" series loading in-game now. As far as I know, this is the farthest anyone has made it in producing a Wheel of Time mod. The map's not perfect, and the mod is nowhere near complete though. So why make a thread? To assemble a team. There's a lot of work to do, and this works as a place for potential recruits to find out about us.

Mod team
  • Ijtzoi
  • ByzCrusader
  • TheKaspa
  • UseYourIlusion

PLANNED FEATURES

  • Religion system - Each religion will represent a prophesy and be headed by the prophesy's "chosen one". The Karaethon religion will have the Dragon as its head, the Crystal Throne heresy of it (theirs says the Dragon must kneel) will have the Empress, the Jendai have the Coramoor, the Aiel have the Car'a'carn, the Sharans (should they appear somehow) have the Wyld. The Shadow will have no head - the Dark One will be represented through events.
  • False dragons - False dragons and such will be represented as claimants to the related religious head. These claims will be added by event, and the actual title will be vacant until a claimant manages to fulfill criteria triggering an event giving him the title. It will be entirely possible to be head of multiple religions, or for the titles to be split. These titles will be destroyed on death, and not be creatable ever again.
  • Darkfriend system - Not all darkfriends will openly have the Shadow religion. Through event or decision, characters can pick up the "darkfriend" hidden character flag which opens various plots and decisions. You will also have to deal with certain events, sometimes the Dark One will give you benefits to strengthen your (and thereby His) role in the world. Sometimes he will have missions for you. It will be highly advisable to succeed in these missions lest you be killed, or your family, or other unpleasantness occurs. Some events will lead to you being revealed, and your religion will change to Darkfriend. This will give such a MASSIVE opinion penalty on anyone who openly professes another religion. It is also a crime, so free imprisonment of heathens will be lowered to the lowest crown authority. If possible, being openly a darkfriend will count as a reason for tyrant-free punishments to anyone who isn't openly a darkfriend.
  • Expanding history - I want to start with just one bookmark: the world as it stands immediately before The Eye of the World. From there, I want to expand backwards as far as proves reasonably possible. The Breaking of the World is the upper limit, there, but that might be too ambitious. I would also like to expand forwards to the end of the books. Whichever direction takes precedence is up in the air, but eventually both should get done and we get the entire Third Age. That's a more distant focus, though.
  • Constant invasions - Beyond the obvious invasions of the Aiel War, the Corenne, the Trolloc Wars and Tarmon Gai'Don, there will be constant mini-invasions (the stacks will be very manageable, these should fail most of the time) on the borderlands from the trollocs and raids on passes to the aiel waste.
  • Channelling system - Channelling will be given to some characters as a flag. If at all plausible, multiple flags for varying strength, and which ones you get depends on the strength of your parents.
    Western women have a decision to be tested for ability in the childhood (unknown when AI will take the decision as of yet). If they have the flag, they may go through Novice-Apprentice-Aes Sedai traits, with a separate trait for each Ajah.
    If someone has a channeller flag but lacks any Aes Sedai, Damane, Wise One, or other somewhat spoilery traits, they will get random events throughout their childhood. Should they survive all these events without picking up any of those traits, which isn't very likely, they will get the wilder trait. All channelling-related traits will give immortality, modify stats and allow some events and decisions.

TASK LIST
  • Province naming and localisation - Ijtzoi
  • Province cultures and religions - DONE!
  • Culture name lists - UseYourIlusion
  • Variety in county title colour - Unassigned
  • Creating characters and giving them titles - Unassigned
  • Positions.txt - Unassigned
  • A prettier colormap and topology - Unassigned
  • Events and decisions for planned systems - Unassigned
  • Flags - Unassigned
  • Coats of Arms - TheKaspa
  • Religion/Trait icons - Unassigned
 

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Nimic

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If this is ever finished it will be the best thing that ever happened.
 

attolmo

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When I was working on a map myself Ijtzoi, I had those provinces that weren't within the borders of any Kingdom (so like stuff north of Andor) basically each holding a city and a castle, with the city's mayor in control of the county. Also independent. I don't think a little landlocked one-county city is going to try and expand so its a safe representation of some little town with their little mayor. The castle is there so that if the player wanted to expand into the area, the castle holding quickly switches to the top holding for the country. Thoughts?
 

imperium3

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For this to be true to source you should also give 95% of female characters the Wrothful and Paranoid traits. :p

Ogier could be represented through being independent bishoprics (steddings) but since they never really do anything it seems a bit pointless. Best way to do it is probably solely through events ("a wandering Ogier builder comes to your city" style).

I'll follow this with interest. Not sure if I can devote enough time to help directly, but if I can you'll hear from me.
 

Sniggles

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While I have my doubts that this will take off--and this is no offense to you, OP, it's just a very difficult world to try modeling in CK2, much harder than ASOIAF frankly--I'd be willing to lend a hand as I'm able. Which isn't very; localization and simple file edits are mostly my thing. Aside from that, though, I'm good for research and am currently doing a re-read of the series, which is probably pretty invaluable for getting landed titles. Any minor cities, towns, etc. mentioned in the book will be critical to accurately modeling the world.

I can't say I necessarily agree with your religious system, though. It's not a bad idea, I just think it's imperfect, and something I'd like to discuss potential changes to. People who are interested in providing suggestions for this need a place to talk that's faster (and quieter) than a Paradox thread--is there any way we could get an IRC or a Skype chat set up so anyone willing to help can talk in a chat room rather than here? Not that I want to isolate us or anything, but we need to communicate faster (and with less clutter) than is possible on a forum.
 

Ijtzoi

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If this is ever finished it will be the best thing that ever happened.
Cool idea
Thanks for the support! :)

When I was working on a map myself Ijtzoi, I had those provinces that weren't within the borders of any Kingdom (so like stuff north of Andor) basically each holding a city and a castle, with the city's mayor in control of the county. Also independent. I don't think a little landlocked one-county city is going to try and expand so its a safe representation of some little town with their little mayor. The castle is there so that if the player wanted to expand into the area, the castle holding quickly switches to the top holding for the country. Thoughts?
I wasn't planning on adding castles to those areas, and I have my misgivings about making the areas easier to consolidate control over. The areas simply weren't profitable to claim rulership over at the start, and I think having the player need to be wealthy enough to invest a lot in a region (i.e. build a fort) before it becomes easy to hold works well.

For this to be true to source you should also give 95% of female characters the Wrothful and Paranoid traits. :p

Ogier could be represented through being independent bishoprics (steddings) but since they never really do anything it seems a bit pointless. Best way to do it is probably solely through events ("a wandering Ogier builder comes to your city" style).

I'll follow this with interest. Not sure if I can devote enough time to help directly, but if I can you'll hear from me.
Wrothful, paranoid... maybe deceitful would be a nice fit, too. Would adding a "smooth your dress" decision be too much, do you think? :p
You're probably right, representing steddings as holdings on the map wouldn't really add much to the game. It might lead to weird situations like the players invading them and getting a stedding to swear fealty. Maybe province modifiers, but I can't think what they would do beyond make those events more likely.
... I'm kind of weirdly interested in giving the players the option to invade the stedding if they want to, now, but I really don't want to leave that open to the AI. It shouldn't be common, it should only happen if a player feels like playing a mad conqueror. Leaving it to events is probably for the best. Though now I'm wondering what to do with bishoprics... Aes Sedai hideouts and libraries, like the Adeleas and Vandene's, maybe?

You should assemble a team! :)
Yup! I'm trying to, wouldn't have posted this early in development if I didn't want to. Any interest in joining? Not everything that needs doing needs mod ability, and many of the things that do are pretty quick to pick up.

While I have my doubts that this will take off--and this is no offense to you, OP, it's just a very difficult world to try modeling in CK2, much harder than ASOIAF frankly--I'd be willing to lend a hand as I'm able. Which isn't very; localization and simple file edits are mostly my thing. Aside from that, though, I'm good for research and am currently doing a re-read of the series, which is probably pretty invaluable for getting landed titles. Any minor cities, towns, etc. mentioned in the book will be critical to accurately modeling the world.

I can't say I necessarily agree with your religious system, though. It's not a bad idea, I just think it's imperfect, and something I'd like to discuss potential changes to. People who are interested in providing suggestions for this need a place to talk that's faster (and quieter) than a Paradox thread--is there any way we could get an IRC or a Skype chat set up so anyone willing to help can talk in a chat room rather than here? Not that I want to isolate us or anything, but we need to communicate faster (and with less clutter) than is possible on a forum.
It'll be difficult, and there're many aspects of the Wheel of Time world it'll be hard to capture. Aes Sedai meddling in politics, and Aes Sedai internal politics, might be simply impossible. Still, I'm willing to model as closely as I can, and whatever comes out will hopefully be good enough for me to have fun in.
I would definitely like to hear your thoughts on the religion system, it's still in its early stages and thus easy to be reshaped to the best it can be. I won't be online as often as I might like this weekend... I am, sadly, a bit busy, one of many things slowing my work on the mod... but I'll try to hang around Skype (my account name is cristywffyr, as far as I'm aware I'm the only one who shows up if you search the directory for it) and the CK2 Modding IRC as much as I can.
And having someone who knows WoT geography and CK2 localisation would be a collossal help, actually. I haven't given a name to a single one of the provinces, and while some would be easy, I imagine most of the province names on that map I posted would have to be obscure towns or even made up in many cases. If you could run through some of the counties or duchies, change some c_73 and d_northwest_east_tarabon into names, it'd help a lot.
 

zonkie

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There was a Wheel of Time mod in development for some time ago. Maybe you can get some inspiration or help from the people of that thread?
 

PAnZuRiEL

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How many centuries will the gameplay actually cover? Depending on the length of the playable time, immortality is not the best solution to model the increased lifespans of channellers, particularly those bound by the Oath Rod who will only live a century or two at best.
 

TheKaspa

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Andoran names

this would be?
andoran = { graphical_culture = westerngfx


two_rivers = {
graphical_culture = northmangfx

color = { 0.25 0.5 0.75 }

male_names = {
Abell Adan Aeric Alwyn
Ban Bandry Bar Berin Bili Bran Buel
Cenn
Dag Dav
Elam Ewin
Haral Hu
Jacan Jared Jon Jonneth
Lem
Mathrim Mat
Paet Pel Perrin
Rand Rowan
Samel
Tad Tuck
Wil Wit
}
female_names = {
Ailys Alene Alsbet
Berowyn Bodewhin
Corin
Daise
Egwene Eldrin Elisa
Darea
Jerilin Jillie
Kari Kimry
Loise
Marin Marisa
Natti Neysa Nela Nynaeve
Rhea
Sari
}

from_dynasty_prefix = "of "

# Chance of male children being named after their paternal or maternal grandfather, or their father. Sum must not exceed 100.
pat_grf_name_chance = 25
mat_grf_name_chance = 0
father_name_chance = 0

# Chance of female children being named after their paternal or maternal grandmother, or their mother. Sum must not exceed 100.
pat_grm_name_chance = 5
mat_grm_name_chance = 20
mother_name_chance = 0


modifier = default_culture_modifier
}
 

TheKaspa

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I would have said
"Toss the dice and inherit Seanchan by marriage"
.

And speaking of that, how to make the MOD the less spoilery possible?
At which book should we maintain the knowledge? Certainly NOT MoL (I have yet to read it, and I'm at TFoH - rereading)!
 

Sniggles

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At which book should we maintain the knowledge? Certainly NOT MoL (I have yet to read it, and I'm at TFoH - rereading)!
Yes, this is a problem. I haven't read MoL yet either, that's what I'm currently doing my re-read for. I'll be great for random towns and whatnot, but I'm not going to want to hear anything about MoL until we get to that point.

To be honest I think we shouldn't start with the world as it is right before Moiraine arrives at Emond's Field, since that time is so tumultuous and will need a lot of event support to make it even remotely follow the path it should. I think we should start with the Aiel War. It's a little more difficult to model in terms of who controls what and who rules where, but most of the information regarding it is actually already there, if one digs a bit. Doing that as a tentative bookmark will be a lot easier, since aside from starting events to describe what's happening, much like the ASOIAF mod has, there's not going to need to be many other events necessary to model things properly; four Aiel tribes invade the Westlands with the goal of killing Laman, a bunch of nations take up arms in support. If the Aiel win, Laman is killed by event when the war ends, and the Damodred dynasty is removed from the throne (the only other event support we'd need). If Laman wins, he gets a trait for having Avendeladora (is that how you spell it?) as his throne that boosts prestige and vassal relations at the cost of piety, which will be passed on to all of his dynasty members.

My main support for this is that it's a relatively simple bookmark and a relatively simple war; its outcome isn't going to shatteringly change the course of the world no matter what happens, and it's not going to need a month of event coding to get to a playable state. That way, as we add flavor events and refine mechanics we can use that bookmark as a basic gameplay test, since it'll be the second most well-known time period that we're ever going to model anyway. Also because that way nobody who hasn't read AMoL will get spoiled based off of some early events we might have to code based on Rand.
 

TheKaspa

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Avendoraldera, but I had to google it. I would have said Avendesora, of which *era was a sapling.

The main problem is that, even working for the Aiel Wars (and we also have to somehow implement Trollocs and Fades, at least - we should ask for help in the Elder Scrolls Mod, I think), there are elements which is not possible to represent truly without spoiler something.
Attention: spoiler (not significant, though)
e.g., the Sea Folk or the Aiels have channelers. But that is not known, at first. So by implementing it (and we have to) we would spoiler!

Another "problem" is considering if to require DLC. For me, LoR is mandatory because of the retinues, that should be used for Aiel's Societies.

Other suggestion that I am just thinking:
- Manetheren implemented as a titular OR culture specific?
- Seanchan? Not implemented?
- Tear and the Sea Folks are Republics, of course.
- Two Rivers folks should have a cultural malus in diplomacy
- Ta'veren trait?
- Warders?
 

Sniggles

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The main problem is that, even working for the Aiel Wars (and we also have to somehow implement Trollocs and Fades, at least - we should ask for help in the Elder Scrolls Mod, I think), there are elements which is not possible to represent truly without spoiler something.
That's true. With respect to that, I think we're just going to need to say that there are minor spoilers throughout all bookmarks. We can avoid major plot spoilers, but for minor things like what you pointed out it's just going to be unavoidable. Everything like that that I can think of is minor, though, so we can say truthfully that all the bookmarks before Eye of the World only include minor spoilers (unless/until we start adding in events for the "birth on the mountain" during the Aiel War; that's obviously a... what would that be, Dragon Reborn spoiler?).


Another "problem" is considering if to require DLC. For me, LoR is mandatory because of the retinues, that should be used for Aiel's Societies.
Legacy of Rome and The Old Gods mandatory, I should think. Unfortunate, but we'll need those rebel mechanics to represent Darkfriend revolts.


Manetheren implemented as a titular OR culture specific?
Titular and culture-specific, I should think. Maybe event support such that once it's created the creator (provided this is after its fall) begins a war with Andor, and if the creator wins Menetheren becomes de jure with claims on parts of western Andor that they don't already control, such as the mines, Baerlon, etc. Also probably some decisions to rebuild Menetheren, if they so choose.

Seanchan? Not implemented?
As problematic as their integration will be, we'll need them. The Seanchan are a massive part of the books. We might be able to do it in a Golden Horde/Aztec way, where their homeland is never actually visible and you just see the invasion forces, but they'll need to be in there in some respect.

Tear and the Sea Folks are Republics, of course.
Yep, but Tear presents a small problem, at least, in terms of the actions that
Be'lal will eventually take there, and Rand too, for that matter. Both of them are absolute rulers of Tear, and Tear did use to have kings, so it will need to be possible to change Tear from a Republic to a Monarchy. If possible we might need to borrow a Night's Watch-like mechanic for Tear, if somebody grows powerful enough to re-claim the Kingship. We can use that to represent a puppet Republic--elective/equal in name only--that's actually controlled by a single man.

Two Rivers folks should have a cultural malus in diplomacy
Haha, I'm not too sure about that.
Rand certainly doesn't do diplomacy very well when he's off his rocker, but as an early ruler, and certainly after he's come to peace with himself and Lews Therin, he's a very good and very diplomatic ruler. Egwene is much the same as the Amyrlin Seat. True, they sort've abandon that Two Rivers stubbornness and the majority of their cultural uniqueness, but then we'd have to change their culture somewhere along the way to represent that (from Two Rivers to Andoran, which I wouldn't necessarily be against, but don't know if I'm in favor of, either. Not really necessary).

Ta'veren trait?
Yep, for sure.

If it's possible to, yes. I was thinking that it may be possible to make Aes Sedai of any Ajah incapable of marrying (since they rarely do anyway) and making the Warder trait celibate. Aes Sedai, when raised, get an event where they pick a Warder (in some way; details can be ironed out later). They're then forcibly married to that person, but don't have any children with them. Reds would be the exception, celibate but without any warder event.

The only problem would be how to model Greens. It would be possible, I suppose, to add in a minor heresy of whichever religion we finally wind up with for the Aes Sedai where they're permitted to have "multiple husbands" so they can have multiple warders, but I don't know if we can make it so that heresy and that heresy alone doesn't have a negative opinion modifier with the parent religion. If that's possible, though, we can certainly add the Greens and their 3-4 Warders.
 

imperium3

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What about having each Ajah be a subreligion of the Aes Sedai religion group? That could help, a lot.

It makes sense to give them their own religion group - they don't react to things like Darkfriend recruitment in quite the same way as normal folks, and as for the opinion mali, it sort of makes sense since no one trusts Aes Sedai anyway, and they are always a bit wary towards women from different Ajahs.
 

Otto of england

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I would make it so that late in the game theres this option

The option to reform the aes sedai which lets them have kids. So where as before they have like -100% fertility(there are rumors of some having kids) same with warders after this reformation it should go down to -40% so they dont spam kids with there immortalityness.

There should also be an event that kills channelers off so since they do die of old age, it would only make sense if they did. There could be modifiers so aes sedai have a higher death rate to repersent the fact the oath rod weakens them.

On the topic of warders there trait should be similar to this
+5 Martial +10 health(there already strong men and they are on poweroids) -5% damage +10% morale damage +25% defene +15% morale defence -50% pursuit +50% damage vs religious enemy, since aes sedai cannot be battle field in this game.

The combat bufs are to represent a warder would have one or several aes sedai with him and they have the oaths preventing them from attacking someone without being threatened so I feel that would effect there damage. All cultures with channelers should have a trait that gives similar combat buffs likely to only high martial generals though, and dont give them the health or martial butffs.

Im more then willing to help wih ideas but, im already way over stretched with modding terms Ive commited to 4 major mods... Lol
 
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