First of all, thanks for all the feedback, it seems that the purposefully inflammatory OP worked well.
I think what the original post complained was, that there is no reason in game for the Soviet Union to stop of full annexation, except the claim which didnt existed before the war. In the game there is nothing about the Soviet Union relations with the West and maybe some other factors why Soviet Union decided to make a peace deal.
This post summarizes my view on the subject rather well.
Did I miss something? Was HOI3 patched to remove the option for the Soviets to puppet Finland and turn them into a Soviet satellite?
There is an option during the Winter War in TFH (no mods mind you) that when the Soviets reach certain surrender progress on the Finns, they can demand far more than the 1940 treaty. You can puppet Finland and turn them into a Soviet client.
I should know, I do it quite often. After all, the strategic effect from controlling Finland's provinces is well worth the effort.
You can also manually add war goals against Finland in HOI3 to do whatever you want. If you want to annex Finland, by all means do so. No one is coming to help the Finns anyway, and even half-way decent HOI3 player should have no problems winning. :shrugs:
And this is the problem. There is a relations hit to Scandinavian countries and a bit of dissent, but no relation to the threat of Franco-British intervention to Scandinavia which was the main reason Stalin decided to take a timeout and wait how summer 1940 would roll out.
But at the point when the event fires in HoI 3 the Soviets have already captured most of Finnish territory, and there is absolutely no gameplay reason for the Soviets to stop and roll back to 1940 borders. It makes no sense, especially since "we'll settle for what we asked for" refers to the fact that that in the game the Soviets demand the post-Winter War borders from the outset of the Finno-Soviet negotiations. And this is both silly and completely ahistorical.
Hey Karelian!
Would you mind pointing to a source (without paywall) that actually says USSR wanted to annex whole of Finland in 1939/40? Maybe include a quote from that source?
Thanks a lot.
Certainly, since that would help this discussion forward a lot.
I'm going visit the local university library tomorrow anyhow, so I can scan and take screenshots from few sources in the JSTOR.
I'll try to limit my sources to non-Finnish ones to avoid further accusations of my obvious nationalistic bias on the topic though
As per moderator recommendations I won't reply to Stuckenschmidt in any other way that I remember that Greek topic he referred quite well - it was absolutely hilarious.
But since my argument is "bollocks", I expect you to post historical evidence against it instead of using tired ad hominem arguments without any substance at all.
As for darth254 - for all you care I'm Nganasan from my mother's side and my father is a Gurage immigrant from Nazret - but does that have anything to do with the validity of my arguments?
And since I actually said that "
Winter War was much more important than Khalkhyn Gol - which has always been portrayed historically correctly in HoI series.", how does that imply that I'd dismiss it. Khalkhyn Gol and the other border scirmishes in Manchuria have been modeled rather well in the series, and they have a clear causal link to the events of the game - they are among the primary reasons why Japan and USSR sign a non-aggression pact.
Err . . . no, it hasn't. There hasn't been a single HOI game that has modelled this correctly either - at most this has simply been an event, not combat. Vichy France was never modelled properly either. Or the Soviet invasion of Poland. Or a number of other historical events.
HPP mod has at least tried in HoI 3 with the limited war mechanics. But the main point is that there is a causality in the event chains - which is something I'd like to see in the relation to Winter War as well.
I'll reply to other posters later on to keep the messages at readable length.
