Winter War done wrong for the 4th time in HoI

[Opanashc]

Installing a friendly regime in its sphere of influence is hardly a Soviet thing. Its a strong nation thing. Look at US, UK, Germany, France, China, Japan, Russia etc. throughout their history - all nations attempted it, with various degrees of success.

 

[HeilLoki]

Just another thread partly derailing, because trolls gonna troll and noone is gonna punish them for it. Everyone who raises an interessting point (like Karelian) will be harrased by trolls. So sad.

 

[Opanashc]

That's because nothing useful is going to come out of the thread.

 

[HeilLoki]

That's because nothing useful is going to come out of the thread.

There is no reason to derail it, if you're not interested in the topic.

 

[mursolini]

Well, there was the creation of Karelo-Finish SSR, that was supposed to get lands similarly to how Belorussian SSR and UkrSSR got land from partition of Poland.
Granted, it was created after winter war, so possibly, for another attack.

Author is somewhat incorrect though, the first ask of land, was supposed to be similar to getting Bessarabia from Romania. Then, probably creation of Karelo-Finish SSR would follow, and possibly either a proxy war, or full-scale invasion.

 

[Aries666]

I for one am glad that devs are Swedes, it's some insurance that nationalism won't majorly affect the game
[coughing] Eugen

Clearly you haven't played EU4

 

[Stuckenschmidt]

Just another thread partly derailing, because trolls gonna troll and noone is gonna punish them for it. Everyone who raises an interessting point (like Karelian) will be harrased by trolls. So sad.

Interesting? Well, partly.

Someone with the nick Karelian complains, that the only conflict with Finland as major war party is not represented in a more significant way. Oh my.

This reminds me of a Greek poster in the History Forum who said, that due to the Greek campaign Barbarossa started late, Germany did not take Moscow and lost the war. So basically Greece won the war for the Allies. And this thread is the same nonsense.

 

[HeilLoki]

So because of his nickname and his perceived heritage we should dismiss everything he got to say? Got it.

 

[Stuckenschmidt]

So because of his nickname and his perceived heritage we should dismiss everything he got to say? Got it.

We should dismiss it, because it is bollocks.

 

[Opanashc]

Game does not include Polish-Romanian Alliance, Soviet involvement in Sinkiang, Yugoslavian coup etc.

 

[CrasherZZ]

I for one am glad that devs are Swedes

Winter War is one of my favorite episodes of WW2. I used to read about those battles over and over again. Doesn't seem like the HOI3 wasn't able to model the details that enable the Fins to do so well in combat against the SU. The end the result is close to correct though, SU just too overpowering in the end. Maybe the national focuses and diplomacy in HOI4 can create some other result than the SU always conquering Finland?

Do the Swedes have some bias or blind-spot when it comes to modeling the Winter War. Seems like they should be very clear about it, being right next door and their former rulers.

 

[Loke]

Winter War is one of my favorite episodes of WW2. I used to read about those battles over and over again. Doesn't seem like the HOI3 wasn't able to model the details that enable the Fins to do so well in combat against the SU. The end the result is close to correct though, SU just too overpowering in the end. Maybe the national focuses and diplomacy in HOI4 can create some other result than the SU always conquering Finland?

Do the Swedes have some bias or blind-spot when it comes to modeling the Winter War. Seems like they should be very clear about it, being right next door and their former rulers.

If im about to guess I would say the Russian army will probably be potrayed as effective as it was historically. No bias ...

 

[darth254]

nationalist

Interesting? Well, partly.

Someone with the nick Karelian complains, that the only conflict with Finland as major war party is not represented in a more significant way. Oh my.

This reminds me of a Greek poster in the History Forum who said, that due to the Greek campaign Barbarossa started late, Germany did not take Moscow and lost the war. So basically Greece won the war for the Allies. And this thread is the same nonsense.

haha, ain't that the truth. When these nationalists come in with names like Karelian, FinlandROX, etc., it's hard to not see them as anything but with a biased agenda on promoting their country/region and its significance, or being soooo nitpicky on the tiniest of details that they blow up over.

"I grew up in Karelia! My region doesn't feel super important or modeled 100% perfectly in this game ..... wahhhhhh"

this can be done for every little itty bitty region of the world if you had enough nationalists posting on here

 

[HeilLoki]

Nice to see that racism is alive and well in this forum. Karelian is being attacked personally, because of his/her (assumeded) ethnic background and not because of what he/she says. Un-freaking-believable.

 

[darth254]

Nice to see that racism is alive and well in this forum. Karelian is being attacked personally, because of his/her (assumeded) ethnic background and not because of what he/she says. Un-freaking-believable.

when in doubt, use the racist card LOL. the dude is biased, it's clear as day. downvote all other posts as much as you want, ain't gonna change that fact.

 

[HeilLoki]

when in doubt, use the racist card LOL. the dude is biased, it's clear as day. downvote all other posts as much as you want, ain't gonna change that fact.

You attacked him personally, because you assume he is finnish. You didn't attack his arguments. That's racism.

Edit: You attacked what he is, not what he stands for. Got it?

 

[scroggin]

The Winter war is a problem. The Finns had crappy military standard materialwise - 114 aircraft, 32 tanks although good morale and tough soldiers.
The Russian army on the other hand had every advantage there is - 4 times more soldiers, more than 3800 aircraft and over 6500 tanks.

So how do we do this without Russia blitzing Finland?

The winter conditions actually reversed the soviet superiority in equipment. When fighting in deep soft snow skis were better than the soviet tanks and trucks. In effect the winter conditions meant that the finns had superior equipment.

Edit;
I agree that the winter war is difficult to model. What is needed is to make it very difficult to supply large numbers of troops or supply hungry forces like armour in poor infrustructure areas in winter. Tanks should have heavy movement penalties unless you research wide tracks.

 

[HeilLoki]

Hey Karelian!

Would you mind pointing to a source (without paywall) that actually says USSR wanted to annex whole of Finland in 1939/40? Maybe include a quote from that source?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Loke]

The winter conditions actually reversed the soviet superiority in equipment. When fighting in deep soft snow skis were better than the soviet tanks and trucks. In effect the winter conditions meant that the finns had superior equipment.

Did the Russian army forget skies or had they forgotten what climate zone Russia and Finland are located in.... Anyway thats not very profesional, no my friend, you better check the numbers again.
Finland had 32 tanks vs Russias 6541... come on... Lol

 

[Konaa]

Okay, god forbid I stick my foot into this mess, but in spite of Karelian being pretty boisterous and aggressive about his claim (And the fact that it's hard to get this sort of thing right in the first place and satisfy EVERYONE) people are getting really weird about the racial implications, so uh, cut it out?