winter troops

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Originally posted by The Brain
Was Japan especially proficient in jungle warfare? I mean, wasn't the Japanese army trained to fight the Russians (in theory) and the various Chinese forces (in practice).

Maybe there are other factors than an alleged Japanese "jungle combat badassness" to explain the British failure in the Singapore campaign. Hmmm?

Personally I don't think that the Japanese army's successes in WW2 came from any special jungle skill.

Singapore was overrun because the best units from there were transferred back home during the blitz.
The Japanese Imperial Army-funny if it wasnt tragic- bicycled their way down the Malaysian Peninsula and down into Singapore, the island city/fortress. After losing naval ability, Singapore was forced at that point to fight a doomed battle. Percival gave up, one of the first real losses to an Asian power ever, I believe?

 

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one of the first real losses to an Asian power ever, I believe?

The Russians of 1905 would be pleased to hear that

 

[Murmurandus]

Originally posted by Kiith

The Russians of 1905 would be pleased to hear that

LOL, indeed the Japanese had a major victory over the Russians at the Battle of Tsunima (or how the thing was called...)

 

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Originally posted by Darkrenown


But didnt they still have good cold weather gear plus tanks and planes that could actually start during the russian winters?

Well, yes and no.

Their winter clothing was probably decent, but the overall "winter warfare" -doctrine was so poor that a very significant percentage of russian losses were due to frostbite. Also, they didn´t have winter camouflage or if they had, they didn´t know how to use it (Source: my grandfather´s written reports from Karelian Isthmus).

I have no records about Russian tank and plane performance, but they did function, at least in "set piece" -battles when there was time to heat the engines for several hours. Nothing unusual here.

Russian tanks were not suited to deep snow / forest operations and therefore Russians were more or less tied to the road network.

Overall, Russians had no extra knowledge of winter combat in 1939 - 1940. The fact that Germans fared even worse in 1941 doesn´t alter this, I think.

 

[peo]

True.
But then noone had tanks suited for deep snow nor i they have any decent training for the winter in scandinavia/Finland.
That is why i think the scandinavian nations and Finland should have a bonus in winter warfare at least when in scandinavia.

 

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Originally posted by Murmurandus


LOL, indeed the Japanese had a major victory over the Russians at the Battle of Tsunima (or how the thing was called...)

That was the decisive Battle of Tsushima Straits, in which the Russian Baltic Fleet, which was quite old, steamed half way around the world to fight the Japanese. The engines tore themselves apart, as the Russians had no ports to stop at, and their ships just kept going and going. When they finally got to Tsushima, nearly the entire fleet was sunk. The few surviving ships escaped to Vladivostok, and I believe some fled to Manila. This was the first time in hundreds of years that a nation in Asia won a war against European nation. I am not sure of battles though. Asian countries still would've won battles throughout history against Europeans countries, just not wars.

Meiji-Tenno

 

[Murmurandus]

Originally posted by Meiji-Tenno


That was the decisive Battle of Tsushima Straits, ...
Meiji-Tenno

That was the name I was looking for...

Thanks, I guess your Japanese is a bit better then mine...

 

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Originally posted by Murmurandus


That was the name I was looking for...

Thanks, I guess your Japanese is a bit better then mine...

Yes, maybe.

If anyone was curious, the admiral of the Japanese fleet at Tsushima was the famous Heihachiro Togo. And, future Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku fought at Tsushima too. He actually lost two fingers on his left hand in this battle.

Meiji-Tenno

 

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There will be special equipement and training for several rough environments as for example Arctic Warfare Equipement... And yes I read a very interesting book way back written by one of Rommels Chiefs of Staffs and it is very interesting how colourful he pictured the problems the Afrika korps had until they 'learned' how to walk,talk and fight in the desert.

/Greven

 

[Murmurandus]

Originally posted by Greven
There will be special equipement and training for several rough environments as for example Arctic Warfare Equipement... ...

/Greven

Now, that seems interesting...

 

[unmerged(3168)]

There will be special equipement and training for several rough environments as for example Arctic Warfare Equipement.

We'll I for one am very pleased to hear that, and even more so if the implication is that you'll have to 'learn' ie take time to adapt/fight in these environments also.

 

[Darkrenown]

Originally posted by Energizer

Overall, Russians had no extra knowledge of winter combat in 1939 - 1940. The fact that Germans fared even worse in 1941 doesn´t alter this, I think.

Oh well, I'd always thought the diffrence in winter gear came from the Russians having good stuff and the Germans having bad, but it seem to be the Russians have bad stuff while the Germans had worse

 

[Murmurandus]

The Germans expected to win the war against the USSR before winter set in in 1941...Which they almost did...So they didn't have any winter equipment with them...

 

[Maximilian I]

I think, the Russians learned "winter combat" the hard way in their war against finland.

 

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Yeah your right there the Finns did teach them well

 

[Maximilian I]

Originally posted by Kiith
Yeah your right there the Finns did teach them well

hehe, I´m looking forward to teach the russians - as finland - a lesson.

 

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Originally posted by Meiji-Tenno


Yes, maybe.

If anyone was curious, the admiral of the Japanese fleet at Tsushima was the famous Heihachiro Togo. And, future Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku fought at Tsushima too. He actually lost two fingers on his left hand in this battle.

Meiji-Tenno

in the late 80´s we had "Amiraali" (Admiral) beer in Finland, which had famous admirals pictured in the label. My favorite was Togo followed closely by Yamamoto. The word around here was that Japanese tourists were pleased as well...

 

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Originally posted by Energizer

in the late 80´s we had "Amiraali" (Admiral) beer in Finland, which had famous admirals pictured in the label. My favorite was Togo followed closely by Yamamoto. The word around here was that Japanese tourists were pleased as well...

Really? That is great! I am pleased too...

Togo Heihachiro and Yamamoto Isoroku are very famous. When Togo died, he had a funeral in which the box with his ashes were carried through the streets if Tokyo. Thousands of people lines up on the sides and watched. Yamamoto later had the honor of being the only other person to have such a funeral. Lots of people lined up along the streets to watch his too. OK.. I am getting a little off-topic now. Sorry everyone.

Meiji-Tenno

 

[Murmurandus]

Originally posted by Meiji-Tenno


...
OK.. I am getting a little off-topic now. Sorry everyone.

Meiji-Tenno

At least you have famous admirals or generals...

 

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Originally posted by Murmurandus


At least you have famous admirals or generals...

LOL There aren't many Finnish ones? Sorry.