William Joseph Slim: The greatest General of WW2?

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Angrycelts you are truly a wise person!

And sorry RCH a number of people have supported me and my views, why should we Brits sit back and allow only you americans to be patriotic when we often have a lot more to be proud of. This is as much a criticism of the British people as the american gung ho attitude!

Prince Verity supported me and Aestrius and now angrycelts, many modertates like Steele have backed down and admitted that my facts have proved slim to be the greatest commander in WW2 (or British commander of WW2)

The man (Slim) was a genius and importantly like the great commander Marlbourough (The greatest of all time) relised that looking after his men was the key to victory. Zhukov and the americans to a lesser extent wasted their troops in mass frontal assaults because they knew manpower would win over for them in the end.

Oh and in Malaya the British fought a similar war to vietnam and won it outright, the americans were simply beaten in Vietnam by a people who would not give up no matter what. Hearts and minds has never been americas strongpoint.

Please dont mistake me I am pro american in many ways and support our strong relationship with them but get annoyed when our contribution is not recognised.

Slim was great, oh and RCH by anymeans please name your top 25 commanders of WW2 (this should be a laugh!)

this post has proved that fact wins over people. I am preparing a full index of my sources and will post them on here soon.

In the meantime, Slim the best commander of world war 2 reigns victorius once agian!

Captian Anson

 

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Angrycelts you are truly a wise person!

And sorry RCH a number of people have supported me and my views, why should we Brits sit back and allow only you americans to be patriotic when we often have a lot more to be proud of. This is as much a criticism of the British people as the american gung ho attitude!

Prince Verity supported me and Aestrius and now angrycelts, many modertates like Steele have backed down and admitted that my facts have proved slim to be the greatest commander in WW2 (or British commander of WW2)

I never backed down and admitted anything, and I resent that you claimed I did.

The man (Slim) was a genius and importantly like the great commander Marlbourough (The greatest of all time) relised that looking after his men was the key to victory. Zhukov and the americans to a lesser extent wasted their troops in mass frontal assaults because they knew manpower would win over for them in the end.

Comparing Slim to Marlbourough is an insult to one of the greatest military minds ever. Slim was a moderatley successful commander; Marlbourough was a genius. Furthermore, saying that the US engaged in mass frontal assaults is false; the US suffered the fewest casualties of any of the major belligerents in the war, even while committing more fighting men than the British. Comparing American tactics to Russian tactics is like comparing an apple to a dump truck.

Oh and in Malaya the British fought a similar war to vietnam and won it outright, the americans were simply beaten in Vietnam by a people who would not give up no matter what. Hearts and minds has never been americas strongpoint.

That is a fallacial comparision. Britain was defending a colony, the US was trying to stop Communism.

Please dont mistake me I am pro american in many ways and support our strong relationship with them but get annoyed when our contribution is not recognised.

It doesn't seem like you are pro-American at all, with all the mass slaughter, and anti-Vietnam rhetoric you are throwing around.

Slim was great, oh and RCH by anymeans please name your top 25 commanders of WW2 (this should be a laugh!)

this post has proved that fact wins over people. I am preparing a full index of my sources and will post them on here soon.

In the meantime, Slim the best commander of world war 2 reigns victorius once agian!

Captian Anson

Is this guy a troll or what?

There is no way that Slim was as talented as you make him out to be, and does not deserve a spot in the top 10. Maybe he could rank in the top 25, I don't know. But to say he is the best is far and away one of the worst bits of historical analysis I have ever heard.

Steele

 

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hah still no facts???

what a surprise......

keep trying but until then Slim has his rightful place!

 

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hah still no facts???

what a surprise......

keep trying but until then Slim has his rightful place!

There have been dozens of facts given. What kind of facts do you want?

In mid 1943, Slim failed twice to capture Akyab. He only managed to defend Assam with American and Chinese forces also moving south to interdict the Japanese advance. He finally captured Meiktila on 4 March, 1945, but only with extensive air and naval support. An amphibious landing by Messervy was needed for him to finally take Rangoon.

His only successes against the Japanese were when the Japanese were severely outnumbered, and low on supplies. Slim, by contrast was recieving extensive support from Stilwell in China and both the Royal Navy and the US Navy. He also enjoyed near complete air superiority during his successful campaigns.

During the early part of the war, 1941-1943, Slim was almost always on the defensive, either being driven back or in retreat. This only stopped in March, when Mountbatten replaced Wavell, and Allied air power began to play a serious role.

Are these facts enough for you?

Steele

 

[Yakman]

Take it to him Steele!

 

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I think Anson is a troll. Lets get him banned.

 

[Aetius]

I don't know about Yamashita. Maybe. He never had any really overwhelming victories, and was almost always possesed of superior air and naval support against enemies at the end or cut off from their supply lines.

Steele

Fall of Singapore:
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/safti/pointer/back/journals/1999/Vol25_2/6.htm
And again:
http://www.britain-at-war.org.uk/Malaya_and_Singapore/html/body_yamashitas_bluff.htm

 

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Interesting. I never knew that, Aetius. Still, his other campaigns weren't quite so bold.

Yakman: With pleasure.
AlexanderG: I agree wholeheartedly.

Steele

 

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you guys live on another planet.

Slim was not on the defensive. ive already explained all this so just accept the facts will u?

Slim the greatest commander of WW2!

 

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What facts? You have not posted a single fact, and yet you want us to accept this ludicrous claim?

Slim was on the defensive early on, and around mid-1943, the tables turned, and he went on [admittedly successfull] offensives. However, these were with extensive air and naval support, against a weakened and weary Japanese foe.

Slim was most certainly not the greatest commander of WW2, but perhaps in the top 15 or 20.

Steele

 

[Yakman]

you guys live on another planet.

Slim was not on the defensive. ive already explained all this so just accept the facts will u?

Slim the greatest commander of WW2!

Support your argument. This is getting silly. Steele is wrecking you, and you start comparing Slim to Marlborough? C'mon man, get real. Point out Slim's tactical genius or some magnificent counterstroke or something. If he were so great why don't you have volumes to tell about him? Why were the Japanese still in Burma in 1945? Why weren't they destroyed by this allegedly brilliant, and to quote your words, "the greatest commander of WW2"?

Oh, I know why. You put out this statement that was wrong. You thought you were clever, saying it, thinking it was right. But everyone pounced on you and pointed out just how wrong you were. So now, to save face, you keep pounding on that same statement, knowing that you can't back it up, hoping to win a little victory by forcing us to tire of your rants and stop responding. Am I right?

 

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Why are you talking to this troll ? Just pretend he doesnt exist. Obviously he isnt reading your posts so why bother reading his ?

 

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If i were to say Horthy was the greatest admiral of ww2, would I be trolling?

 

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Support your argument. This is getting silly. Steele is wrecking you, and you start comparing Slim to Marlborough? C'mon man, get real. Point out Slim's tactical genius or some magnificent counterstroke or something. If he were so great why don't you have volumes to tell about him? Why were the Japanese still in Burma in 1945? Why weren't they destroyed by this allegedly brilliant, and to quote your words, "the greatest commander of WW2"?

Oh, I know why. You put out this statement that was wrong. You thought you were clever, saying it, thinking it was right. But everyone pounced on you and pointed out just how wrong you were. So now, to save face, you keep pounding on that same statement, knowing that you can't back it up, hoping to win a little victory by forcing us to tire of your rants and stop responding. Am I right?

Fifty Steele points for Yakman!

I think until he posts some real evidence to support this claim, we should ignore anything else he says, or at the very least, not devote much energy responding to it.

Steele

 

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Point out Slim's tactical genius or some magnificent counterstroke or something.

In nine months of fighting, from 6 August 1944 to 5 May 1945, Slim took his army, including heavy tanks and vehicles, through 1000 miles of largely undeveloped country and crossed two wide rivers - one of which was strongly defended, effectivley ending Japanese occupation of Burma.

Why were the Japanese still in Burma in 1945?

If Zhukov was so great why where the Germans still in the Soviet Union in 1944? If Rommel was so great why where the British still in Egypt in 1942? If Guderian and Manstein where so good why where the Russians still in Moscow in 1941? If Yamamato was so good why did the IJN lose control of the Pacific?

Honestly that is a rather poor question, Slim did as good a job as anyone could have with what he had, i'm confident in saying you could have put Patton, Zhukov or Manstein in there if you wanted and they wouldn't have done any better.

Now i'm not trying to claim Slim as the best general of the war, I wouldn't be so bold as to proclaim a 'top 10', but Slim is certainly up there with the best of them.

 

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In nine months of fighting, from 6 August 1944 to 5 May 1945, Slim took his army, including heavy tanks and vehicles, through 1000 miles of largely undeveloped country and crossed two wide rivers - one of which was strongly defended, effectivley ending Japanese occupation of Burma.

While facing minimal resistance from weakened and largely ineffective Japanese forces.

If Zhukov was so great why where the Germans still in the Soviet Union in 1944? If Rommel was so great why where the British still in Egypt in 1942? If Guderian and Manstein where so good why where the Russians still in Moscow in 1941? If Yamamato was so good why did the IJN lose control of the Pacific?

Zhukov fought a German army that was more effective than his own forces, he did not enjoy true air superiority until early 1945, Rommel faced a larger force with superior equipment, Guderian and Manstein were outnumbered and thousands of miles deep into Russian territory, and Yammamoto's fleet was hoplessly outclasses by the US Navy.

Honestly that is a rather poor question, Slim did as good a job as anyone could have with what he had, i'm confident in saying you could have put Patton, Zhukov or Manstein in there if you wanted and they wouldn't have done any better.

Now i'm not trying to claim Slim as the best general of the war, I wouldn't be so bold as to proclaim a 'top 10', but Slim is certainly up there with the best of them.

That question is fine. Of course Slim did a good job; no-one has claimed otherwise. The problem is that, as you said, he has been put far above where he deserves. I would wager that if you put Zhukov, Patton, or Manstein in Burma, they would have out-performed Slim.

He is a talented general, but anything more praising than "up there with the best of them" is too much. I can name at least 15 men who I would rank higher, but after that, Slim seems to fit right in.

Steele

 

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If Zhukov was so great why where the Germans still in the Soviet Union in 1944?

Well first of all at which particular time in 1944 are we talking about. Because Bagaration was about to sweep them out of USSR.
Second of all the Eastern Front was where the Germans delpoyed the vast majority of their armed forces Vs Burma, which was a secondary or tertiary theater in 44-45.

If Rommel was so great why where the British still in Egypt in 1942?

Because he had no fuel, no tanks, no air cover ?

If Guderian and Manstein where so good why where the Russians still in Moscow in 1941?

Because they faced competent Russians with overextended supply lines ?

If Yamamato was so good why did the IJN lose control of the Pacific?

Because economicly Pear Harbour was a non-event and the inevitable march of American superiority would have crushed Japan one way or another ?

The fact is that Slim was fighting the Japanese in a secondary theater. While he himself was enjoying excelent supplies and aircover by 1944 the Japanese were in the shit. The Japanese sea was crawling with American submarines that were devastating Japanese transport fleets and the Japanese airforce more or less ceased to exist.

 

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While facing minimal resistance from weakened and largely ineffective Japanese forces.

The Japanese army didn't just evaporate you know, the advance came after Slim was able to draw the Japanese into battle at Imphal/Kohima and defeat them before seizing the initiative and pursuing them to the Chindwin River.

Zhukov fought a German army that was more effective than his own forces, he did not enjoy true air superiority until early 1945, Rommel faced a larger force with superior equipment, Guderian and Manstein were outnumbered and thousands of miles deep into Russian territory, and Yammamoto's fleet was hoplessly outclasses by the US Navy.

I know why they happened, that part was supposed to be rhetorical

The point was that even the commanders you acknowledge as the best of the war couldn't do the job without the proper forces. To claim that Slim is any worse a general because he didn't launch an offensive until he had sufficient forces seems a tad unfair to me, especially considering Burma's place in the supply food chain when compared to the defence of Moscow or Operation Overlord meaning he couldn't rely on massive reinforcements to replace losses.

That question is fine. Of course Slim did a good job; no-one has claimed otherwise. The problem is that, as you said, he has been put far above where he deserves. I would wager that if you put Zhukov, Patton, or Manstein in Burma, they would have out-performed Slim.

Really? How exactly would they have done that?

He is a talented general, but anything more praising than "up there with the best of them" is too much. I can name at least 15 men who I would rank higher, but after that, Slim seems to fit right in.

As I said, I wouldn't dare to rank the top generals, they all have their qualities and flaws and imho too close to call, especially considering most theatres where very different considering the levels these people where commanding at.

 

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Well first of all at which particular time in 1944 are we talking about. Because Bagaration was about to sweep them out of USSR.
Second of all the Eastern Front was where the Germans delpoyed the vast majority of their armed forces Vs Burma, which was a secondary or tertiary theater in 44-45.

Because he had no fuel, no tanks, no air cover ?

Because they faced competent Russians with overextended supply lines ?

Because economicly Pear Harbour was a non-event and the inevitable march of American superiority would have crushed Japan one way or another ?

As stated in my previous post these examples where merely to state that commanders, no matter how good, where not able defeat their enemies without the proper forces. Moreover some of those commanders put themselves in that position while Slim was introduced at the very lowest point of the campaign and was able to turn it around.

The fact is that Slim was fighting the Japanese in a secondary theater. While he himself was enjoying excelent supplies and aircover by 1944 the Japanese were in the shit. The Japanese sea was crawling with American submarines that were devastating Japanese transport fleets and the Japanese airforce more or less ceased to exist.

Yes, but it wasn't just a secondary theatre to the Japanese, it's not as if Slim got first picks with the supplies either. Slim himself didn't have the forces to launch much of a campaign until the very end of '43 and he did, succesfully invading Arakan in November while the Japanese where still receiving reinforcements from the Pacific and was able to attain his objectives;

"Your first duty is to engage the enemy as closely and continuously as is possible so that his forces... may be worn down and consumed by attrition and to establish our superiority to the extent of forcing a diversion of his forces from the Pacific theatre. Secondly, but of no less importance, you are to maintain and enlarge our contacts with China, both by the air route, and by making direct contact in Northern Burma by the use, amongst, of the strongest possible ground forces specially organised and supplied from the air."

-United Kingdom, Report to the Combined Chiefs of Staff by the Supreme Allied Commander South-East Asia, 1943-1945, (London: HM Stationary Office, 1951), p 226

 

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Wiliam Joseph Slim? .... I've never heard of him. o