Will Vicky 2 be kinder on new players?

[Rhion]

I disagree.

New players have to go through the same trials and torments, just like everyone else, to prove themselves worthy of Victoria.

It's only fair

 

[unmerged(91061)]

I went through a process of installing-trying-uninstalling-epiphany 3 times before I could understand how to play EUIII & Vicky.
Learning curve is huge and a real pain for folks like me trying to spread the Paradox goodness to even the most history-philic of our friends.

 

[unmerged(51702)]

Paradox has pretty good base where to draw from : HoI-series have had pretty good tutorials and Lord_Richmond has made one for vicky. The same with interface : HoI2 has a pretty good one. I'm under the impression that Ricky and HoI1 have been made on the same engine and the same concept, but a move towards HoI2 would certainly improve playability.

Playability and thus a good tutorial cannot be neglected because it's in straight correlation with its commercial success and to the reviews it gets. Mean if the fan base is not sure if the game is playable, what will happen to the newbies?

 

[Raph]

I think that with the much-extended tooltips in all EU3-engine games, it'll be a lot easier to make Vicky 2 an understandable game. Still, it's premise and concepts are complex and shouldn't be dumbed down. For that reason, a really in-depth tutorial would be great. The lack of one was one of the most common criticisms of the first game in reviews AFAIK.

 

[gadajs]

Yes, a good tutorial is a necessity. Tool tips are good but not enough. One of my bigger epiphanies came when after getting repeatedly frustrated at why my budget started out being profitable but got progressively worse till I was running a deficit, I finally realized that it was because my pops cash reserves were running out. No amount of tool tips would have solved that one.

 

[Orinsul]

hoving the mouse over expenses and getting a list of reason why, thatd be a tool tip and that couldve done it

 

[unmerged(68110)]

It definitely looks easier. Also, the base is fundamentally better than the first, which veterans can adapt to it quicker and help the newbies around quite early on.

The only interface issue that I see right now is the stupid box titles at the top. They STILL are not fitting properly.

 

[noddysseus]

Victoria 2 better not be a dumbing down of Victoria 1.

I hate the fact that society is continously dumbing down in every aspect.

 

[King]

Victoria 2 better not be a dumbing down of Victoria 1.

I hate the fact that society is continously dumbing down in every aspect.

It is like EU3 in that regard, it is dumbed down because despite the core game mechanics being far more complicated the interface is better.

 

[Nyrael]

Victoria 2 better not be a dumbing down of Victoria 1.

I hate the fact that society is continously dumbing down in every aspect.

Dumbing down strategy and gameplay -> bad thing
Dumbing down interface to dumb down micromanagment thus allowing us to focus on strategy rather then micromanagment -> good thing

 

[KonradRichtmark]

Every real game has a vertical learning curve

 

[Alexander Seil]

Vicky is a pretty easy game to play, I don't get what people are on about???

The only really bad part was the constant POP promotion/demotion/splitting business.

 

[LeeDub]

It is like EU3 in that regard, it is dumbed down because despite the core game mechanics being far more complicated the interface is better.

The EU3 interface is really good now, hopefully it will be even better in Vic2. Vic1 was just hiding too much info from the player.

 

[henryjai]

I just got my hands on vicky/ricky just some days ago and o'boy the beginning was TORTURE. The simple lack of interactive tutorial is simply absurd seeing the complexity of the game. HoI1 and 2 both had a very good tutorial and I think the whole complexity can be well maintained if paradox just makes the effort to bring about a clear in-game introduction to the concept.

I admit that HoI2 gets boring gradually because apart from war there is litte one can do, so it's super that Victoria takes all aspects of a nation into consideration. It doesn't have to be simpler, just clearer.

that is a bit extreme, there are not much actions you can do, these 10 actions, after knowing them well you're ready to explore how to play this game. (you still need to play some games to get to know about supply/demand and all those economy things, especially how to get capitalists work)

1. build factories
2. convert pops/split pops
3. diplomacy/war
4. build naval bases/build railroads
5. build armies/navies
6. buy/sell resources
7. control budget slider
8. social/political reforms
9. colonize
10. grant statehood

 

[Insignificant]

I did not find the learning curve for EU3, HoI2, or Vicky that bad.
Asked a few questions on the forum and took off.

 

[Tormodius]

Will Victoria 2 be kinder for newcomers? I'm not asking for a dumbed down game, just a less steep learning curve?

It seems after reading the dev. diaries that the user interface will be more easy on a new player. Sounds to me it will be more easy to do stuff, and that some micromanagment will be replaced by easier features. However i hope for the complexities in the game mechanics to be as good, or better, as in the original game. I want to have a challenge even playing UK, so im very curious about how the AI will behave!?

 

[TempestDK]

Vicky is a pretty easy game to play, I don't get what people are on about???

Well good for you .... others were not as smart or lucky as you to grasp the game immediately.

Try checking the V1 forum at game launch, and check how many threads there were from people who had no clue how to play it.

OP has a valid point, whether or not he is a majority, minority or the only human soul on Earth who didn't grasp V1 within 2 hours.... and I know for a fact that he is not the only one.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Vicky is a pretty easy game to play, I don't get what people are on about???

The only really bad part was the constant POP promotion/demotion/splitting business.

You don't play many other games, do you?
Playing Victoria was like gardening... immensely rewarding when you see your nation blossom and grow, but until that point lots of labour and repetitive tasks. Imagine how much more you would have been able to focus on strategy if stuff like POP splitting had been automatic, or if you could have set POP promotion rules like "Promote POPs so that every factory has a 1:1 ratio of clerks to craftsmen".

That's what I mean with gardening... you had to go around from province to province and perform the same task a hundred times over and over to get what you wanted.

When you play Victoria in a multiplayer game you start to realize what a crutch the user interface was. In multiplayer games you do not pause unless you absolutely have to. You have to be a master micromanager to play that game online...

 

[Emperor Leo]

Well good for you .... others were not as smart or lucky as you to grasp the game immediately.

Try checking the V1 forum at game launch, and check how many threads there were from people who had no clue how to play it.

OP has a valid point, whether or not he is a majority, minority or the only human soul on Earth who didn't grasp V1 within 2 hours.... and I know for a fact that he is not the only one.

Thank you, Tempest. I was a latecomer to Paradox games and my first game was EU Rome. After playing that (fairly simple game), I decided to try older Paradox games such as Victoria, CK, HOI2 and EU3. I managed to get a fairly good grasp on EU3, but the others were a nightmare for me. As shallow as it sounds, the dated 2D graphics really held the games back for me. Victoria was a nightmare to get to grips with, as I had no idea what I was supposed to do. I had no idea what clicking a certain button would do. With loads of facts, figures and variables and no idea what I was supposed to be doing, I just chose to give up. I don't want to have to spend time studying a time period or trawling through the internet to find out how to play a game.

To anyone who found Victoria oh-so easy to learn, well done, but spare a thought for those of us that don't want to spend hours upon hours to learn how to play a game.

 

[talin]

To anyone who found Victoria oh-so easy to learn, well done, but spare a thought for those of us that don't want to spend hours upon hours to learn how to play a game.

Never, we shall not surrender our superiorty complex. It is this that makes us so much better that the plebs