Will this game fix the USA?

[Arcvalons]

I mean, will there be an option to "contain" it somehow as other countries in a realistic manner? In the original Victoria, it had cores all over most of it's present territory from the begining, when in reality the USA wasn't planning to expand exactly how it did.

For example, if Mexico keeps Texas, there should be no Mexican-American War (and the USA AI should not be a warmongering bastard against Mexico in such case). The cores of the USA at the beginning should be only the territory they controlled in 1836, and then only if and when Texas succeeds in it's independence and joins the USA, it would receive Mexico's northern territories as cores. Similarly, Mexico should have those territories as cores at the beginning, losing them only if Texas manages to secede.

Also,in the ACW, if the Confederacy manages to survive the war, then there is no reason for the Union to keep going at war with it constantly every five years, when in such a scenario the CSA would be recognized as an independent state by the Great Powers. If the CSA survives, USA should lose all cores on it.

 

[makotech222]

play VIP mod

 

[Finnish Dragon]

I mean, will there be an option to "contain" it somehow as other countries in a realistic manner? In the original Victoria, it had cores all over most of it's present territory from the begining, when in reality the USA wasn't planning to expand exactly how it did.

My guess is that US will have cores to all mainland provinces that US currently control. I don´t think there should be separate events or decisions to expand US core provinces. Those cores also mean that if other great powers gain foothold on North America between Canada and Mexico then there is a possibility that US may declare war on them. Core provinces are also an incentive to expand your nation.

For example, if Mexico keeps Texas, there should be no Mexican-American War (and the USA AI should not be a warmongering bastard against Mexico in such case). The cores of the USA at the beginning should be only the territory they controlled in 1836, and then only if and when Texas succeeds in it's independence and joins the USA, it would receive Mexico's northern territories as cores. Similarly, Mexico should have those territories as cores at the beginning, losing them only if Texas manages to secede.

AFAIK, a lot of people from US moved to the modern day Texas before 1836. Those people should cause Mexico a problem because if the Mexican government treats them badly then they may request help from the US government. Also, Texans wanted to keep slaves while the Mexican constitution banned slavery. At the same time US Southern States wanted to have more states allowing slavery in order to maintain balance between slave states and free states so the most realistic time window between war between US and Mexico was between 1836 and the US civil war.

Also,in the ACW, if the Confederacy manages to survive the war, then there is no reason for the Union to keep going at war with it constantly every five years, when in such a scenario the CSA would be recognized as an independent state by the Great Powers. If the CSA survives, USA should lose all cores on it.

If CSA would be able to gain independence the only way to prevent a war between USA and CSA should be that nations like UK and France would guarantee the independence of CSA. The independence of CSA would have meant that there would have been an iron curtain in North America between North and South.

The new war would have been likely especially if nations which guarantee the independence of CSA are elsewhere occupied. Because of this, USA should not lose cores on CSA provinces if CSA wins her independence but if CSA would be able to win the next war then they should be able to dictate that USA should lose cores on the peace treaty after the next war like it is done in EUIII.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

If the OP's suggestion were followed, there would be far too much at stake in the Texan war, giving it undue prominence. If I as human Mexico knew that loss of Texas would give my biggest enemy cores on half my territory, you had better believe I'm going to do what it takes to win that war whatever the cost.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Of course there would be a war - regardless of what happens with Texas.

America was a highly dynamic country, with a booming population and a very clear awareness of their own strength compared to their southern neighbours. Not only that but Americans were flooding into Texas and California even before the war, given the lack of effective control of the Mexican government over its territories it was only a question of time, not circumstances, until the settlers would take by force what they considered theirs by natural right.

Assuming the USA would leave Mexico alone is like assuming white settlers and Indians could live side by side and respect each other... not going to happen unless you do brain surgery on the settlers and remove some of the most basic human instincts - empathy for your kin, selfishness, envy and greed.

Well you could also do time travel and give the Mexicans AK-47s or something like that, but who wants to play that sort of game.

 

[Chopain]

My quick thought would be that many people in the U.S. that may buy this game would be very pissed off if the country did not form like it did in real life. i know I would. Everyone really want the United States to be a huge fail if it is controlled by the ai? If the ai doesn't have its core then the United States will never form correctly because no one then has told the ai what the present day boarders are.

 

[Merrick Chance']

(and the USA AI should not be a warmongering bastard against Mexico in such case)

And yet that is what the US was, even after it got most of the South-West.

 

[Orinsul]

What i want, is that if the US breaks or is beaten by another north american state, it gets replaced in terms of the big events and immigration boon.

like if B.C. or Quebec or Texas, New England or even Mexico becomes a great power and the U.S.A. isnt, then things like sale of alaska and alot of the U.S. flavour events, manifest destiny and that stuff should not go to the U.S.A. but to the dominant North America state.

My quick thought would be that many people in the U.S. that may buy this game would be very pissed off if the country did not form like it did in real life. i know I would. Everyone really want the United States to be a huge fail if it is controlled by the ai? If the ai doesn't have its core then the United States will never form correctly because no one then has told the ai what the present day boarders are.

An event or decision that gives it its present day cores, i.e. adopt the manifest destiny cost a couple badboy points for all those cores.
thatd do it

 

[EvilCartyen]

This is the second best thread title ever.

And the answer is yes, yes it will. The deficit will be gone, unemployment will be down, and every american will fall in love, and live in castles made of flowers, guns, and elvis costumes.

This, non-fellow americans, is the game you've been waiting for - the game which will FIX THE USA!

Huzzah!

 

[Romtos]

This is the second best thread title ever.

And the answer is yes, yes it will. The deficit will be gone, unemployment will be down, and every american will fall in love, and live in castles made of flowers, guns, and elvis costumes.

This, non-fellow americans, is the game you've been waiting for - the game which will FIX THE USA!

Huzzah!

Hehe, I had the same idea with the thread title.

 

[unmerged(105596)]

This is the second best thread title ever.

I can't help wondering what is the best thread title then?

 

[gadajs]

I am guessing, the 'Advantages of Totalitarianism' one takes the cake.


Are you unhappy? Are you depressed? Is your life not what you expected it to be? Have no fear, move to your nearest totalitarian stare and all your woes will be gone!

 

[Enewald]

play VIP mod

a solution of three words. :rofl:

+1

 

[JoeGiavani]

What i want, is that if the US breaks or is beaten by another north american state, it gets replaced in terms of the big events and immigration boon.

like if B.C. or Quebec or Texas, New England or even Mexico becomes a great power and the U.S.A. isnt, then things like sale of alaska and alot of the U.S. flavour events, manifest destiny and that stuff should not go to the U.S.A. but to the dominant North America state.

I always thought that. If Mexico beat the US in the war (very unlikely but do-able for a human player) it should become THE dominant American state. It had a much more liberal constitution than the US and if it held on to California/Texas it'd have plenty of resources.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

I always thought that. If Mexico beat the US in the war (very unlikely but do-able for a human player) it should become THE dominant American state. It had a much more liberal constitution than the US and if it held on to California/Texas it'd have plenty of resources.

Resources are one thing, having capital and skilled labour to exploit them is totally another thing. Alaska is also a land rich in resources but while Russia owned it there was zero development for lack of labour and capital.

Mexico was a basket case throughout the 19th and well into the 20th century, politically economically and most important socially. Whenever it was not in civil war it was politically dominated by irresponsible strongmen and Macchiavellian warmongers, the lower 2/3 of the population were illiterate and disenfranchised, the federal government powerless throughout most of the country, few roads outside the central highlands and no money to pay for expansion, oh and there always were foreign powers, happy to meddle in Mexican affairs... a lot has to happen to turn them into anything remotely resembling a regional power, let alone the dominant American state.

They didn't even have that much population, most of Mexico outside the highlands was sparsely settled until the population boom of the 20th century. We think of it today as the third most populous country of the western hemisphere, but in the Victorian age it was empty wild west for the most part.

 

[Moltke]

I always thought that. If Mexico beat the US in the war (very unlikely but do-able for a human player) it should become THE dominant American state.

Until it fell apart from internal strife and peasant revolution.

 

[Andrelvis]

But still, there is no reason the borders should become exactly what they did in history. Sometimes the US should get both Californias, sometimes neither, etc.

 

[OHgamer]

That will be enough spamming in this thread thank you, please return to the topic of discussion set by the original poster.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

But still, there is no reason the borders should become exactly what they did in history. Sometimes the US should get both Californias, sometimes neither, etc.

Geography... the 49th parallel makes for a convenient border with Canada, and the present day US-Mex border follows the Rio Grande in the east and the main deserts / mountain ranges in the west. There really isn't that much of a reason to expand the US border further south, you have to move it by several 100s of miles before you hit worthwhile territories.

California was untenable for Mexico - their fastest way of communication was by ship via Acapulco to San Diego, that's how remote California was from Mexico. Given that American settlers were moving west like a tide in the 1840s, and roads were built to shorten east-west travel times in their wake, I don't see how the US would resist the temptation to invade and grab all that land for themselves. Mexico had some internal settlement that spread north, but it was not comparable to the wave of human migration that spread from the east coast into the interior of the continent. Most importantly the Mexicans did not push roads and railroads north as fast as the Americans were pushing them west.

BTW, San Diego is about as far away from Mexico City as it is from Kansas City. That's a very long distance by 19th century standards.

Interestingly in the later part of the 19th century Mexico went into an economic boom under Porfirio Diaz, and an internal colonization got going that was comparable in scale to the settling of the American Wild West. Pushing railroads north and settling the northern states, Chihuaha, Sonora, Durango, Sinaloa. Had that taken place 40 years earlier, who knows, California and Arizona might still be Mexican today. But that was in the 1870s and 1880s, with massive foreign investment flowing into the country. That money was simply not there in the 1840s.

 

[Arcvalons]

The Mexico AI should still lose Texas, and the USA AI should still go at war with Mexico if that happens. So everything would develop normally if they are both controlled by the AI.

However, a Mexico human player that manages to keep Texas should be able to avoid wars.

Well, in the end the country managed to get itself together, I don't see why a human player shouldn't be able to do it sooner.