Will there be an Imperator -> CK2 Save Converter?

[Nyrael]

I would be very surprised if Paradox doesn’t add the empire and ultimate fall of the western Roman Empire

I would be surprised if they do. The Republican Period, which the game simulates, is a period where you need a map-painting game. In contrast, the Imperial Period requires the opposite: a game with barely any map-painting and focused solely on internal struggles. And the Fall of Rome requires yet another completely different type of game.

 

[Captain Frakas]

Having "loyalty" as a fundamental aspect of the game and integrating migration mechanisms tend to made it fully adaptable to the whole Principate and even with the Dominate. Would it still be funny? If you have enough aspects of internal politics and administration, it will. Especially since wars (including civil wars) are interesting by themselves, not only by allowing significant conquests.

My main fear is that, by deciding they'll probably never create a late game scenario, that the dev team will probably never enhance late game experience and only focus in game designs though for the early era. I hope to be corrected.

 

[aruon]

i hope that there's a converter but that the missing timespan between the end of IR and beginning of CK2 Old Gods gets the in between history simulated, like watching a start to end observe game in CK2. set up a powerful tribe/nation like the Visigoths/Ostrogoths/Garamantes (yeah they aren't in but bear with me), hit convert, and hope to god that you have something left by the time the converter has put everyone through the meat grinder.

and of course, if a converter is as moddable as any of the others, it could be set up to convert into WtWSMS for CK2 and drop you right into the dark ages.

 

[SOSHaruhi101]

I think the chances of a official converter is unlikely, but the three most likely scenarios that will happen are.

1. We get a Imperial Rome expansion to late Antiquity. Modders build converter to WTWSMS and maybe have only a 100 year gap at most.

2. Paradox never releases an expansion but a modder makes their own large time date extention mod that adds various mechanics and people build a converter from that to WTWSMS

3. We never get any expansion to Roman Empire era/Late Antiquity and people just build converter from end of IR to start of WTWSMS

1 is the ideal, 2 is fine and 3 is something I think is unlikely and mostly unideal but still a possibility

 

[Learman]

Thats what WTWSMS mod is for

Well you cant really convert a base game into a mod for another base game

 

[Thure]

Well you cant really convert a base game into a mod for another base game

You absolutelly can. A converted game is nothing more than a mod. So to convert it into WtWSMS it would be the same as converting it into the main game.

 

[Learman]

You absolutelly can. A converted game is nothing more than a mod. So to convert it into WtWSMS it would be the same as converting it into the main game.

I didn’t know that, you learn something everday huh

 

[Vohen]

Nope, it would make no sense as Imperator does not simulate the Roman Imperial Period

Which is funny for a game called Imperator: Rome.

I would be surprised if they do

Even if PDX don't, I'd be very surprised if mods don't.

The Roman Empire falls in 1453 though .

Honestly, the mechanics of the game should work to model the era up to about Charlemagne just about right. If Paradox isn't gonna do it, then mods surely will (WTWSMS II, maybe?)

Now, here lies the real question for the eventual mod that extends the timeline up until Charlemagne (or at the very least to WTWSMS, which I am familiar with, but never actually played), is for how PDX is going to implement barbarian warfare for IR.
Chances are they won't touch on the concept of hordes if they don't make an imperial expansion, so modders will have to work that in through events, buffs and whatnot.

Which leads me to biggest issue imo, the dismemberment of Rome (or any big blob that the player would likely form).
I think there's little point in going to a ck2 game where you control most of Europe and north africa, so that's really important.
I think you should have a very small margin of error during those endgame events (without it being actually impossible), be it from a mod or an actual expansion.
At some point before the endgame, when the empire is too overextended, you should be presented with an event/decision to split it in two or more parts, with a choice to play any of them.
The part that has the capital most exposed to the Barbarians would face the blunt of the invasion, but the other part could have a better chance of survival (but not unmolested).
Then, after the barbarians events/hordes, the exposed part would likely fall, safe for a very efficient loyalty and corruption management.
If you're controlling the fallen part, maybe you could receive a decision to evacuate your family ("your" being the current ruler of the empire) to a safer place, which would work as the county where your dynasty would start in ck2.
I'd say it's acceptable to be reduced to a de jure kingdom, preferably a duchy, but even a county, perhaps depending on the loyalty of the governors in the area you evacuate to and your invested wealth.
Then, there's also Christianity, which should decrease the authority of the empire or the loyalty to the emperor, which would facilitate the decline.
Those are just some ideas, it doesn't matter if it's done that way, as long as the result is the same: high difficulty to finish the game with the empire together.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Which is funny for a game called Imperator: Rome.


Even if PDX don't, I'd be very surprised if mods don't.


Now, here lies the real question for the eventual mod that extends the timeline up until Charlemagne (or at the very least to WTWSMS, which I am familiar with, but never actually played), is for how PDX is going to implement barbarian warfare for IR.
Chances are they won't touch on the concept of hordes if they don't make an imperial expansion, so modders will have to work that in through events, buffs and whatnot.

Which leads me to biggest issue imo, the dismemberment of Rome (or any big blob that the player would likely form).
I think there's little point in going to a ck2 game where you control most of Europe and north africa, so that's really important.
I think you should have a very small margin of error during those endgame events (without it being actually impossible), be it from a mod or an actual expansion.
At some point before the endgame, when the empire is too overextended, you should be presented with an event/decision to split it in two or more parts, with a choice to play any of them.
The part that has the capital most exposed to the Barbarians would face the blunt of the invasion, but the other part could have a better chance of survival (but not unmolested).
Then, after the barbarians events/hordes, the exposed part would likely fall, safe for a very efficient loyalty and corruption management.
If you're controlling the fallen part, maybe you could receive a decision to evacuate your family ("your" being the current ruler of the empire) to a safer place, which would work as the county where your dynasty would start in ck2.
I'd say it's acceptable to be reduced to a de jure kingdom, preferably a duchy, but even a county, perhaps depending on the loyalty of the governors in the area you evacuate to and your invested wealth.
Then, there's also Christianity, which should decrease the authority of the empire or the loyalty to the emperor, which would facilitate the decline.
Those are just some ideas, it doesn't matter if it's done that way, as long as the result is the same: high difficulty to finish the game with the empire together.

Adoption of Christianity as the sole state religion was an attempt to stabilise the empire, and increase the emperor's control. Having it reduce the authority of the Empire or loyalty to the emperor is nonsensical, and would just mean no-one adopts it.

 

[Buttons12345]

It wasn't in EURome.

To be fair EU Rome was a long time ago, following the way CK2 has been (and how successful it has been) I could easily see paradox trying to stretch the timeline as far in each direction as they can get away with. At the start I doubt it will extend to the late empire, but after years of development and DLC it wouldn't surprise me at all if gameplay could extend from the death of Alexander the Great to the fall of Rome or death of Justinian. I can't see them going beyond Justinian due to start Islam being a touchy subject.

 

[IlikeTrains]

To be fair EU Rome was a long time ago, following the way CK2 has been (and how successful it has been) I could easily see paradox trying to stretch the timeline as far in each direction as they can get away with. At the start I doubt it will extend to the late empire, but after years of development and DLC it wouldn't surprise me at all if gameplay could extend from the death of Alexander the Great to the fall of Rome or death of Justinian. I can't see them going beyond Justinian due to start Islam being a touchy subject.

They said they won't be adding new bookmarks IIRC.

 

[Buttons12345]

They said they won't be adding new bookmarks IIRC.

Even if they did, nothing prevents them from going back on their word, especially if the game turns out to be as successful as CK 2. After all DLC tends to make big bucks and if they aren't going to extend the timeline or the map than they will have a much harder time finding room for DLC. After all CK2 has had 4 or 5 total DLC based around expanding the map or timeline (depends on if you consider China expanding the timeline).

 

[Vohen]

Adoption of Christianity as the sole state religion was an attempt to stabilise the empire, and increase the emperor's control. Having it reduce the authority of the Empire or loyalty to the emperor is nonsensical, and would just mean no-one adopts it.

I'm no expert in roman history, so if I'm wrong feel free to correct me, but afaik adopting Christianity, while having that effect of stabilizing an increasingly religiously divided empire, also had the unfortunate side effect of diminishing the prestige of the emperor with the populace, as now he wasn't seen a god/descent from the gods himself, so that's what I was trying to express.
But anyway, the Christianity part doesn't detract from my point, I only mentioned it as something that will obviously have to be touched upon, so disconsider it if you will.
The point still is: if anyone's going to make something to connect IR with CK2/WTWSMS, it is of utmost necessity to have a representation of the dismemberment of the empire in the transition.

 

[SOSHaruhi101]

I'm no expert in roman history, so if I'm wrong feel free to correct me, but afaik adopting Christianity, while having that effect of stabilizing an increasingly religiously divided empire, also had the unfortunate side effect of diminishing the prestige of the emperor with the populace, as now he wasn't seen a god/descent from the gods himself, so that's what I was trying to express.
But anyway, the Christianity part doesn't detract from my point, I only mentioned it as something that will obviously have to be touched upon, so disconsider it if you will.
The point still is: if anyone's going to make something to connect IR with CK2/WTWSMS, it is of utmost necessity to have a representation of the dismemberment of the empire in the transition.

Tbh most people who do mega campaign will probably start at 303 BC and many people already have plans of dealing with blobbing (A requirement for any reasonable mega campaign anyway) so idk how important this is. I'd rather have the Christian mechanics be more flexible so they work with the intended start date rather than entirely revolving around the idea of Rome blobbing like OTL.

 

[Vohen]

Tbh most people who do mega campaign will probably start at 303 BC and many people already have plans of dealing with blobbing (A requirement for any reasonable mega campaign anyway) so idk how important this is. I'd rather have the Christian mechanics be more flexible so they work with the intended start date rather than entirely revolving around the idea of Rome blobbing like OTL.

Well, I would sort of agree with you for any ofher gs game, but IR is a special case where you are definitely expected to blob.
Of course it isn't just about Rome, but they still are the stars of the show.
With that in mind, if you come out of that timeframe without conquering anything beyond the italian peninsula because of self imposed restrictions, that's just playing against the game.
Then there's self balkanization, which I don't like because of how unnatural it is.
The game should force your hand at the same point where the Romans got theirs forced (the Huns are very far from player control, they should spawn no matter what the player does).
As I said, it shouldn't be impossible as well, with great loyalty and corruption management, and/or maybe a more defensible terrain (an, say, Athenian, Carthaginian or Sicilian empire might not be as vunerable to barbarians coming from Germany, like Constantinople wasn't) could allow to retain at least a portion of the empire.

Then there's also another thing, I don't know how WTWSMS dealt with it, but going from a roman imperial system to feudalism doesn't make sense without the fall of Rome.
So going to IR to CK2, where feudalism is, at least, one of the most important game mechanics, would seem quite outlandish.

And, once again, you can disregard my idea for Christianity if you will, I just threw that around relating more to the side effect I mentioned than anything else.

 

[Caesar_33]

there are huge gaps inbetween dates there. early rome is maybe 500 b.c to 500 ad, then around 1000 to 1500, then 1500 to 1800, then 1900 to 1936, and 36 to the mid 40s. so a conversion would have to have massive gaps inbetween games. it would be fun though, for the memes.

 

[Thure]

there are huge gaps inbetween dates there. early rome is maybe 500 b.c to 500 ad, then around 1000 to 1500, then 1500 to 1800, then 1900 to 1936, and 36 to the mid 40s. so a conversion would have to have massive gaps inbetween games. it would be fun though, for the memes.

Victoria is 1836 to 1936 and not 1900 to 1936. So there is no gap between EU and Victoria. The only gap is between I:R and CK.

 

[sdeezie]

So, I've been working on modding CK2 a bit lately, with the intent of making some "alternate history" start dates & scenarios, and the issue I've seen is that the game files don't seem to support negative dates.

You can make characters born on 0.1.1, but you need to start at 16.1.1 for them to be playable adults - so that means you're also very limited in setting up a genealogy for them. You can see the effects of this by looking at the history of the Roman Empire title, and seeing that its holders aren't quite right.

What I take from this as an (amateur) modder is that any hope for an I:R -> CK2 converter rests on the ability to advance the end date further in I:R, rather
than bringing the CK2 start date back, simply because it would lose so much history of titles / dynasties / etc if you tried to do it that way.

If one doesn't mind a few centuries of political & dynastic stasis, you can definitely "skip ahead" and make a converter that just grabs everything as-is and starts a CK2 mod around 700AD or whatever feels right. But to avoid having that gap, we'll need an extended I:R timeline that stretches into the early A.D.s.

 

[SOSHaruhi101]

So, I've been working on modding CK2 a bit lately, with the intent of making some "alternate history" start dates & scenarios, and the issue I've seen is that the game files don't seem to support negative dates.

You can make characters born on 0.1.1, but you need to start at 16.1.1 for them to be playable adults - so that means you're also very limited in setting up a genealogy for them. You can see the effects of this by looking at the history of the Roman Empire title, and seeing that its holders aren't quite right.

What I take from this as an (amateur) modder is that any hope for an I:R -> CK2 converter rests on the ability to advance the end date further in I:R, rather
than bringing the CK2 start date back, simply because it would lose so much history of titles / dynasties / etc if you tried to do it that way.

If one doesn't mind a few centuries of political & dynastic stasis, you can definitely "skip ahead" and make a converter that just grabs everything as-is and starts a CK2 mod around 700AD or whatever feels right. But to avoid having that gap, we'll need an extended I:R timeline that stretches into the early A.D.s.

Just extend IR to 400(ish), add rise of Christianity mechanics and convert it to WTWSMS

 

[Caesar_33]

Victoria is 1836 to 1936 and not 1900 to 1936. So there is no gap between EU and Victoria. The only gap is between I:R and CK.

there is a slight gap between CK and EU4, but there's also a huge gap inbetween HOI4 and Stellaris. you're right about the V2 dates though.