Will there be a Netherlands focus tree?

[Mannstien]

I believe the generic focus tree has a path towards joining the main factions which the Netherlands will get.

 

[potski]

And the AI would normally follow the historical path and join the Allies, since it's a democracy.

You can't control another country through your choices of NFs. You can't make the Netherlands join the Axis. You either leave them neutral, and risk that when it comes to 1940 they join the Allies anyway. Or you try to influence them towards fascism, and stage a coup risking a civil war. There is no magic button to get a democracy into your faction.

Plus if they do join the Axis there is nothing to stop the Allies attacking them. And this includes their resource convoys from DEI which come through Allied controlled seas past India, South Africa, Gibraltar, French North Africa and UK.

I doubt there is an easy way for fascists to get their hands on the resources of the Netherlands.

 

[krieger11b]

In the Netherlands defense that until 1939 they did have historically good relations with Germany, better than the UK. They were never invaded in WW1, which Germany never really seriously considered to begin with. The Royal Navy did partially blockade the Netherlands in WW1 to make sure they didn't trade with Germany. They had close cultural ties. There wasn't really that much of a worry of a German invasion until the UK and France entered the war and forced Germany to fight in the West, which wasn't really Hitler's plan to start a war with them, he wanted to go East, the West would be a job for another generation as he knew that going against the USSR would be best without a two front war and a blockade from the allied navies.

 

[HenkieDePost]

Spoiler

You don't need some special Dutch focus tree for any of this. If you want to suck up to Germany then spend your PP to improve relations with them, using the diplomatic options. If you want to be a fascist, appoint a fascist minister, so support for fascism increases. If you want to fortify your provinces to defend along the New Holland Water Line then use your civilian factories to construct forts. If you want to re-arm use your military factories to produce the equipment for new Divs and air wings.

You can't "buy" tanks from Germany. The only way German tanks will be in the Netherlands is if they roll through Benelux on their way to Paris, unless you can join the Axis or you play in MP and have a very generous German player who decides that it would be useful to keep a neutral Netherlands that will trade them resources from DEI

The focus tree just provides a guide to different strategies, with some useful bonuses. So if you want to re-arm like mad then you might take a branch that improves your industry, or if you intend to go into exile and try to defend DEI then take a focus that improves your navy, and build as many factories/dockyards as you can in DEI rather than in Europe.

It might be that I'm misunderstanding you but are you saying that a National Focus tree for the Netherlands in general is redundant or are you saying that the options I provided so far are 'redundant'? If the first thing is the case then I'd say the more 'flavor' options the better. Even if most parts of the Dutch tree are the generic tree with renamed options it would still be better than just a generic tree with generic options. More diversity, historical events and choices etcetera add hugely to the replayability of a game like Hearts of Iron and is welcome in my book. Of course I hope they go further than this and add real Dutch decisions sometime in the future but I can wait.

If it's about the specific options I'm suggesting I can see where you're coming from but the case still stands that the alternatives you are suggesting divert resources from a country which doesn't have much to begin with. (Every factory must be working at peak efficiency for the Dutch to even have a chance at halting the German advance). The bonus a national focus like the 'New Hollandic Waterline' gives the player is that instead of building the fortresses themselves they only have to fulfill certain prerequisites to get the same effect. Majors like GB also have 'focusses' like this. Take the 'Fortify Suez' focus Johan uses in WWW as an example. I agree that there might be better alternatives out there for a Netherlands tree but the proposed options so far do have the bonusses of adding both flavor and efficiency. About the rearmament tree, I know buying is not in the game. The second option I gave in my second post is a way to work around that missing mechanic. I do admit that there might again also be better alternatives out there but you seem to have misunderstood me there. The Dutch do not 'buy' the thanks, that's only implied. By choosing the Germans as an example the generic 'Medium Tank II' get's renamed in Panzer II just for cosmetic reasons. The Dutch then get a small efficiency bonus to emulate the tanks being 'bought' from Germany.

If you have any questions or comments, feel free to post them. It is a bit cliché to say it but English isn't my first language so if something needs clarification feel free to ask.

 

[Sir Garnet]

The Dutch Empire was more than just a speed bump for conquerors, but it was living on borrowed time and my questions is what options the Dutch have when they ulimately have to dance to one tune or the other.

 

[potski]

It might be that I'm misunderstanding you but are you saying that a National Focus tree for the Netherlands in general is redundant or are you saying that the options I provided so far are 'redundant'? If the first thing is the case then I'd say the more 'flavor' options the better. Even if most parts of the Dutch tree are the generic tree with renamed options it would still be better than just a generic tree with generic options.

Yes, I'm saying, that other than for flavour reasons, everything you want should be possible using the standard mechanics of the game, plus the generic focus tree. UK has a focus for the Shadow Factory Scheme, but everyone can disperse their industry to protect it from bombing. Japan has a focus to Increase Naval Production, everyone can build more dockyards if they have coastal states, empty buildings slots and enough spare consumer factories. Germany has a focus for the West Wall, but everyone can fortify their provinces if they have enough spare consumer factories.

This is obvious - they are only events with a wrapper around them, and the event actions have to be things that can be done in-game through the UI by the player and AI.

Of course, NFs are freebies - other than the time taken, there is no cost in PP, NU, support for your party, factories etc. Wait 70 days and the focus fairy turns up with the bonus. But it's not like there are no NFs for the Netherlands, Belgium, Hungary, China etc. There is. It just lacks some local flavour. But it should provide you options to improve your navy, build fortifications, improve your industry, research better planes, increase NU, move towards one ideology or another, etc. And since nearly all AI countries are following it, then it must be perfectly sensible within the context of their very different starting positions. Otherwise, shit would happen

And that includes that the minor nations must be able to enjoy similar freebie bonuses, otherwise the majors would just be all OP. It's important that minor nations are playable not only because many people like to do so, but also because the majors rely on trading with these countries, having them as their allies/puppets, and go to war with them. We all know that the Netherlands was a minor but still made a significant contribution to the war in South East Asia. Even most Japan fanboys wouldn't want DEI to just be a walk-over. Anyone playing as the UK certainly wouldn't.