- May 6, 2015
- 2.278
- 3.160
Will there be a Netherlands focus tree?
- Thread starter ThePatriotOfDreumel
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
The minor nations (including the Netherlands) won't have nation-specific focus trees at first (they will just get generic focus trees), but they might be added later on apparently. Hopefully mods will come to the rescue.
- 4
Feels like they will expand these kinds of things in DLCs/patches, like in eu4 with the national ideas. Fits good within that model.
- 3
I think the main things you could base a Netherlands tree (or modification to the standard tree) might be options for improving their colonies and navy, or building fortifications within the Netherlands itself. The Dutch East Indies were a major target for Japan.
The only real problem is that it's pretty tough to find "high points" in the Dutch experience of WW2. On land the Germans and Japanese pretty much demolished them, and their surface fleet got virtually annihilated by Japan.
The best I can find is Conrad "ship-a-day" Helfrich, whose submarine force destroyed more Japanese ships in the first weeks of the war than the British and American navies combined. On the other hand he was in charge of the Battle of the Java Sea, which is a poster-child for "Japanese torpedoes are really deadly".
The only real problem is that it's pretty tough to find "high points" in the Dutch experience of WW2. On land the Germans and Japanese pretty much demolished them, and their surface fleet got virtually annihilated by Japan.
The best I can find is Conrad "ship-a-day" Helfrich, whose submarine force destroyed more Japanese ships in the first weeks of the war than the British and American navies combined. On the other hand he was in charge of the Battle of the Java Sea, which is a poster-child for "Japanese torpedoes are really deadly".
- 2
- May 6, 2015
- 2.278
- 3.160
Netherlands is a helpless country which will be rushed over and crushed like everyone else by the glorious reich. The idea that they could make a difference is absurd.
- 8
- 8
The next DD after Easter will be on the generic NF that Netherlands etc get. You will be able to judge then whether it gives you the variation in strategies (military, industrial, political) that can make a minor still interesting to play.
Remember, when EU4 was released, many nations did not have unique national ideas. This is probably going to be the same with HOI4, and more focus trees will be added in future versions.
- 3
Haven't seen it in the WWW's and didn't feel the need for an own thread, but how about France? Do they have an own focus tree or is their fate already decided?
- 4
Although it is true that The Netherlands were not in the best shape for a war with majors like Germany and Japan (abysmal shape might be a better term to describe the state of the Dutch army) they did manage to score some victories. 'Ship-a-day' Helfrich is one of those examples but another 'significant' one which I would like to point out is the destruction of a huge amount of German transport planes during the German invasion of The Netherlands. In fact, 278 Ju 52's were lost on May 10th alone, thus rendering almost a year's worth of production useless. Although it is speculation, it is said that the decision not to directly invade Great Britain was heavily influenced by these transport losses.
A funny sidenote about how the Dutch managed to score these kills is that my Grandpa used to tell me about the Dutch 'cycling-grenade squads'. The German transports had to land in the countryside because of a lack of fuel etc. The battle was still waging on and not all airports were firmly in German hands yet so some of them decided to land in polders, unprotected from the advancing German troops. Dutch troops would then respond by going to these transports on bicycles with grenade filled baskets and throw them into the planes, destroying them. The historical accuracy of this account is of course debatable, (in fact by far most planes got destroyed by effective AA and German tactical mistakes like landing in marshy areas which couldn't support the plane's weight) but it is still a cool little footnote regarding the German transport plane losses.
Now about a Dutch National Focus tree:
- I'd suggest something along the line of improving the New Hollandic Waterline to hold off a potential German Invasion
- A rearmament tree where the Dutch can choose between buying arms from Germany (thus improving relations or something like that) or Allied countries. (In real life the Dutch were very, very late to the party when it came to rearmament and they made the mistake of placing alot of their orders in Germany. Suffice it to say that those orders never got delivered. Or you can say that the Germans took the liberty to bring the Dutch orders in themselves ;p)
- A naval tree where the Dutch focus on improving their navy to counter, in particular, the Japanese threat. This tree can merge into an ABDACOM tree. On december 28th 1941 the Dutch formed the American-British-Dutch-Australian Command together with the other listed countries after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in order to protect their interests in the region. The cooperation ultimately failed but we are dealing with an 'alternate universe' here, who knows what the coalition could do in your campaign?
- Decisions about colonies and Benelux cooperation or subjugation (The latter is obviously alternate history because that was pretty much a no-go for real life Netherlands. Might fit in an Axis oriented decision-tree.)
-A neutrality oriented tree where you try to be friendly with everyone and trade your way to victory. (Im not sure how to implement this given the game's current mechanics. It seems to be a boring tree although it of course resembles the actual Dutch plan of staying neutral). Therefore it atleast deserves a mention.
Might think of more options later.
Last edited:
- 5
- 3
There is no buying of arms from other countries. You have to produce equipment in your own military factories.
It indeed seems to be the case that without a currency resource buying equipment isn't in the game. (If this mechanic doesn't get added later through DLC or Free Updates). I do think that there are some ways to still implement a tree like the rearmament tree by using in game features:
1. You can name the tree the rearmament tree just for flavor and use it simply as an alignment tree where the Dutch player can choose between factions to join. 'Rearming' through Germany makes them moer and more friendly towards you after which they invite you to join their faction or something along these lines.
2. Choosing which side you want to buy your arms from changes the sprites and names of vehicles in your tech tree and gives you a small production bonus for that vehicle. So let's say the Dutch have the generic 'Medium Tank II' in their tree. If they enable the focus 'Buy tanks from Germany' the 'Medium Tank II' name switches into 'Panzer II' (Im using a pre-alpha screenshot of the German tech tree for reference so that probably has changed) and the sprite does as well. The Dutch then start with a higher production efficiency to simulate the 'importing aspect' of the rearmament tree.
I'd say the last option would be pretty cool. The more named tanks and sprites we have and the less generic 'Medium Tank II's' the better.
- 1
Indeed, I'm really hoping this will be the case. Best case scenario would be that every country had their own focus trees.
And I'm also hoping that there's an easter egg Byzantine focus tree....
- 2
You don't need some special Dutch focus tree for any of this. If you want to suck up to Germany then spend your PP to improve relations with them, using the diplomatic options. If you want to be a fascist, appoint a fascist minister, so support for fascism increases. If you want to fortify your provinces to defend along the New Holland Water Line then use your civilian factories to construct forts. If you want to re-arm use your military factories to produce the equipment for new Divs and air wings.
You can't "buy" tanks from Germany. The only way German tanks will be in the Netherlands is if they roll through Benelux on their way to Paris, unless you can join the Axis or you play in MP and have a very generous German player who decides that it would be useful to keep a neutral Netherlands that will trade them resources from DEI
The focus tree just provides a guide to different strategies, with some useful bonuses. So if you want to re-arm like mad then you might take a branch that improves your industry, or if you intend to go into exile and try to defend DEI then take a focus that improves your navy, and build as many factories/dockyards as you can in DEI rather than in Europe.
- 2
Actually my ahistroricam strategy as germany includes allying netherlands and keeping it out the war