Will the new civic "Idyllic Bloom" be compatible with "Life-Seeded"?

[Aëron Dúrr]

The upcoming update will introduce the civic "Idyllic Bloom". The only requirements are the main species has to be Fungoid or Plantoid. But the "Gaia Seeder" which you can build with this civic can only be constructed on "worlds ideal for your starting species". So what if a Fungoid or Plantoid empire starts the game with that civic combined with the "Life-Seeded" origin? Would it only be able to build those "Gaia Seeders" on Gaia Worlds? Because that wouldn't make sense.
I hope from a roleplay perspective that it will be possible to use that civic properly with "Life-Seeded" empires so they would be able to bring their paradise to less ideal worlds. One of my custom empires is a "Life-Seeded" empire which came to believe that they were chosen by divine beings to live in their paradise and therefore developed into a "Celestial Empire". But in terms of gameplay its inability to properly expand because of the pops' Gaia climate preference and their inability to conduct diplomacy because of the "Inward Perfection" civic causes its early demise almost everytime. I was hoping that "Idyllic Bloom" might be the solution to make it strong regarding gameplay as well.
EDIT: completed an incomplete sentence

 

[Aepdneds]

Minor hijack of your thread, will there be a change to the "World Shaper" ascension due to "Idyllic Bloom"?

I agree with you that Life-Seeded and Idyllic Bloom should have a special mechanic when used together.

 

[HFY]

Life-Seeded and Idyllic Bloom appear to be incompatible, given what we saw in the Dev Diary thread.

Honestly, Idyllic Bloom feels like it should be an Origin -- it's a Civic you can't remove, and it's not compatible with a bunch of other Origins.

 

[Aëron Dúrr]

will there be a change to the "World Shaper" ascension due to "Idyllic Bloom"?

I don't think there will be. "World Shaper" isn't available from the start like "Idyllic Bloom" but it has the advantages that it can be applied to all worlds at, as far as I am aware of, a way lower cost. Because of that both wouldn't negatively affect game balance, I think.

Honestly, Idyllic Bloom feels like it should be an Origin -- it's a Civic you can't remove, and it's not compatible with a bunch of other Origins.

Great idea actually. Instead of gradually transforming a planet by upgrading "Gaia Seeders", a planet could transform into a Gaia World with the growing amount of pops, which are Plantoids and Fungoids anyway, so it would make sense. And it kind of ties into the background story of the Maweer Caretakers.
I might make a post in the suggestion thread regarding that in the coming days, so thank you for the idea.

 

[Incompetent]

Balance-wise I can understand the reasoning, but lore-wise it's a bit of an odd restriction. Why would you want to terraform specifically those planets that are already ideal for your species?

I do like the idea of tying it to having a certain number of pops of your species on the planet, though. Just pressing a button that costs X resources requires no thought, it's just the same spam-terraforming that Gestalts already do with Hive/Machine Worlds once they get rich enough. Pops on the other hand are pretty well always scarce relative to number of planets, and *founder species* pops even more so (since you can't easily pump the numbers by Nihilistic Acquisition and so on), so you'd need to plan carefully to grow the necessary population in the right places.

 

[Aëron Dúrr]

Balance-wise I can understand the reasoning, but lore-wise it's a bit of an odd restriction. Why would you want to terraform specifically those planets that are already ideal for your species?

As far as I know planets with the same climate as your homeworld have a 80% habitability, not 100%, so they are not fully ideal and it is still worth it to turn them into Gaia Worlds. Lore-wise I imagine that the Plantoid/Fungoid population can grow on these world most ideally and are able to transform them into a paradise over time, even through that middle-stage of using a "Gaia Seeder".

 

[HFY]

Balance-wise I can understand the reasoning, but lore-wise it's a bit of an odd restriction. Why would you want to terraform specifically those planets that are already ideal for your species?

Lore-wise maybe it's something like: "This environment is close enough to home that our ideal ecosystem can take root here."

And then after you've Gaia-formed: "This environment is now actually ideal."

 

[Archon87]

Lore-wise maybe it's something like: "This environment is close enough to home that our ideal ecosystem can take root here."

And then after you've Gaia-formed: "This environment is now actually ideal."

Honestly I see it working well with xenophile playstyles. They want the planets they inhabit to benefit everyone who wants to live there, not just their own species. Or it could be that they are essentially perfectionists, like you said. Maybe perfect planets have religious significance, or it's all about the efficiency to them. The possibilities are pretty varied for the lore of such a society.

 

[HFY]

Honestly I see it working well with xenophile playstyles. They want the planets they inhabit to benefit everyone who wants to live there, not just their own species. Or it could be that they are essentially perfectionists, like you said. Maybe perfect planets have religious significance, or it's all about the efficiency to them. The possibilities are pretty varied for the lore of such a society.

Yeah, it'd be great for Xenophiles.

Ironically, it's also great for Raiding Bombardment slavers.

 

[Lorenerd11]

Life-Seeded and Idyllic Bloom appear to be incompatible, given what we saw in the Dev Diary thread.

What do you mean? I've seen no indication that they'd be incompatible.

 

[Aëron Dúrr]

I might make a post in the suggestion thread regarding that in the coming days, so thank you for the idea.

I just posted that suggestion for "Idyllic Bloom" being an origin in the forum, just in case anyone is interested.

 

[Tyrannical Prince]

I think it would have been more interesting if the plantoid/fungoid pops would gradually change their host planet to their native preference (not necessarily Gaia), you could let your species immigrate to other empires and they would gradually start tyerraforming the planets of other empires to your species preference while causing economic problems to those empires.

 

[Me_]

Balance-wise I can understand the reasoning, but lore-wise it's a bit of an odd restriction. Why would you want to terraform specifically those planets that are already ideal for your species?

Why would want have anything to do with it? I want to be able to squeeze coal into diamonds, but no matter how hard I try, I don't seem to be able to.

I interpret this condition as "only the ideal planets have conditions good enough for our species to cause a cascade of growth, terraforming the planet into Gaia".

Think of it in comparison to average height over the ages. The average height in the past was notably lower than now, because the lower average food standards prevented people from reaching the height that their genes allowed. Better feeding standards result in higher average height.

If the initial conditions are not good enough mother nature can only shrug.

 

[Incompetent]

Lore-wise maybe it's something like: "This environment is close enough to home that our ideal ecosystem can take root here."

And then after you've Gaia-formed: "This environment is now actually ideal."

Fair enough. It's worth noting that this seems to open up full Gaia spam without requiring an AP, since you could first do standard terraforming to your native planet type and then run the Gaia seeder.

 

[HFY]

Fair enough. It's worth noting that this seems to open up full Gaia spam without requiring an AP, since you could first do standard terraforming to your native planet type and then run the Gaia seeder.

Sure, but Civic slots are harder to get than APs, so I don't see much of a problem.

Same deal if Idyllic Bloom is moved to an Origin -- as it should be, ahem -- since you only get one Origin, and taking Idyllic Bloom seems like it would lock you out of Remnants / Syncretic / Post-Apoc / (etc.).


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On that topic, what about moving Agrarian Idyll to an Origin?

Start with a few extra non-urban districts, and get +1 building slot unlocked per level of your capital, so you don't need many City districts on a fully matured planet.

EDIT: Moved to its own topic:

Agrarian Idyll as an Origin

Agrarian Idyll is already incompatible with a handful of other Origins, so making it into an Origin makes some mechanical sense. But also, from a flavor standpoint, the pre-built Districts on the Prosperous Unification start don't jibe with my...

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