Will the Holy Roman Empire be in the game?

[unmerged(5822)]

I can't recall having heard anything about it yet... and with "gold" so close now, I'm actually starting to get a little bit nervous. Does anyone know...
* IF it will be in the game?
* HOW dynamical will its borders be (can the HRE gain/lose territory)?
* CAN you become the emperor?
* WHAT will the benefits be, if you are the emperor?
* HOW are the emperor elections handled (relations check or empire-specific event where the electors get to vote)?
* CAN you gain or lose elector status?

 

[Nikolai]

As you've said, we haven't heard anything about the HRE, but I'm sure it's in. But I really hope that it's much better done than in EU2. But why on Earth shouldn't the player be able to get the title? If you are in the position to get it, you will of course be able to get it!

 

[Xoxxon]

Nope. In light of the fact that the HRE had absolutely no influence on European history whatsoever, and especially medieval history, P-dox has decided to leave it out of the game completely. PTI from the Rhine east to Poland. Sorry.

 

[Vharzul]

Actuly the Holy roman empire did server a purpose in that it did and was the frist time that neraly all German minors or poeple were under a German Nation, until it fells to peaces again, they were extreamly powerful in military and other things, but that might be one reason why thier not included in CK lol because its to overpowering.. :rofl:

 

[Solmyr]

Should be fun playing the Habsburgs in the GC (they existed in 1066, as counts in modern Switzerland) and trying to gain everything that they historically gained...

 

[Eldin]

Actuly the Holy roman empire did server a purpose in that it did and was the frist time that neraly all German minors or poeple were under a German Nation, until it fells to peaces again, they were extreamly powerful in military and other things, but that might be one reason why thier not included in CK lol because its to overpowering.. :rofl:

Hmm... is this double sarcasm or did you just miss the sarcasm in the first post? *is lost and confused*

 

[Dinsdale]

Actuly the Holy roman empire did server a purpose in that it did and was the frist time that neraly all German minors or poeple were under a German Nation, until it fells to peaces again, they were extreamly powerful in military and other things, but that might be one reason why thier not included in CK lol because its to overpowering.. :rofl:

The HRE was never a German nation. The whole notion of "Germany" would be alien to the period. Further, the area included Italians, French, Dutch, Slavs and numerous other cultures who would be shocked to discover that they were German.

The Empire was neither centralized, a militarily powerhouse, or made it's Emperor personally stronger for the title. Even a great Emperor such as Barbarossa was plagued with domestic problems as well as the eternal struggle with the Papacy. During the early period of this game the Emperor Henry was humiliated by the Pope and the weakness inherent in this "Empire" of decentralized, mostly independent collection of states was the very limited power of an elected monarch.

 

[unmerged(10915)]

Was a really nice title though.

 

[Dinsdale]

Was a really nice title though.

Yes, but the old joke was it is neither Holy, Roman or an Empire

 

[SavvyPlayer]

Nope. In light of the fact that the HRE had absolutely no influence on European history whatsoever, and especially medieval history, P-dox has decided to leave it out of the game completely. PTI from the Rhine east to Poland. Sorry.

The HRE title was instrumental to a dynasty's accumulation of VPs, especially during the latter period of the MA.

 

[Phystarstk]

The HRE was never a German nation. The whole notion of "Germany" would be alien to the period. Further, the area included Italians, French, Dutch, Slavs and numerous other cultures who would be shocked to discover that they were German.

While I agree that the HRE was never German during this period, you saying that the HRE was never a German nation is just not true. By 1512 it was officially called the "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation".
Saying thats the HRE of the German Nation was never a German nation just sits oddly with me.

Also of note, until 1045, the german princes would elect a "King of Germany" who was the crowned by the pope and named the "Holy Roman Emperor".
Even though this practice changed during the CK period, there was never any doubt about what the HRE was made to be. I consider the HRE Germany just as I consider the England of the time English. The English were ruled by Scandinavian descended, french-speaking Normans, and their empire soon absorbed the Celtic speaking Welsh. France had many non-French speakers as well: Breton, French Flemish, the Basques, and Provencal and other non-French dialects.

 

[Xoxxon]

Yes, but the old joke was it is neither Holy, Roman or an Empire

Whoah, careful with that joke, it's an antique.

And once again a couple offhand sarcastic remarks have prompted people to "instruct" us on the nature of the HRE. I hate when that happens.

As to the game itself, I have no idea how the HRE will be represented, if it's represented special at all. It's probably best not to get your hopes up, because then you'll be comparing CK to the ideal that you've created in your head, and it'll inevitably fail to meet your expectations, leading to a bunch of useless "why isn't the HRE like this? CK is so totally inaccurate! I pull a pen from my pocket protector and brandish it in disgust at Paradox!"

 

[Dinsdale]

While I agree that the HRE was never German during this period, you saying that the HRE was never a German nation is just not true. By 1512 it was officially called the "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation".
Saying thats the HRE of the German Nation was never a German nation just sits oddly with me.

So the German nation includes Italy, The Netherlands and Bohemia?

Dialects within this "German" nation would differ dramatically, even among areas now considered German, are you claiming a German nation, a German sense of identity and a German nationalism centuries before it's been historically acknowledged.

Even without debating that issue, I specified the CK period which would predate the "German nation" piece by several centuries.

I consider the HRE Germany just as I consider the England of the time English. The English were ruled by Scandinavian descended, french-speaking Normans, and their empire soon absorbed the Celtic speaking Welsh. France had many non-French speakers as well: Breton, French Flemish, the Basques, and Provencal and other non-French dialects.

Many differences. Let's start with the fact that William I was King of England as well as Duke of Normandy. The demense which made up his, and his vassals' land in England was one country. No HR Emperor ever ruled the Empire in such a personal way. Sorry, but England was a centralized homogenous state, regardless of it's cultural ethnicities, something the HRE of this period never was.

 

[Ktarn]

While I agree that the HRE was never German during this period, you saying that the HRE was never a German nation is just not true. By 1512 it was officially called the "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation".

By that reasoning it must have been a holy roman empire as well...
...and centuries later...DDR was democratic...

 

[unmerged(16585)]

and their empire soon absorbed the Celtic speaking Welsh.

IIRC the Welsh spoke Welsh, while Celtic was a language spoken in Scotia and was a mix of the English of the time and Gaelic.

Speaking of which, is Scotland going to be called by the name the English gave it, or the name by which it called itself? Paradox always seems to be split halfway between the two.

 

[unmerged(19226)]

I hope there is Kingdom of Germany with powerful kings. Of course they had many troubles with inner oppositions but German kings (usually crowned in this period as Holy Roman Emperors) had much more power than for example French kings till XIV centuary and ruled most powerful state in Medieval Catholic Europe in the beginning of CK great campaign.

 

[juv95hrn]

Kingdom of Germany will be in...

 

[qvcatullus]

IIRC the Welsh spoke Welsh, while Celtic was a language spoken in Scotia and was a mix of the English of the time and Gaelic.

Speaking of which, is Scotland going to be called by the name the English gave it, or the name by which it called itself? Paradox always seems to be split halfway between the two.

Well, yes, there are languages called "welsh" and "celtic" which are indeed different, but welsh is a celtic tongue, as they speak a branch of the old celtic languages which had, of course, taken on its own character from its time, location, and neighbors. My point being, essentially, that "Celtic" is not the only Celtic language.

 

[unmerged(8915)]

Kingdom of Germany will be in...

Good to know. I never doubted such a crucial medieval instituation would be lacking in such a comprehensive project (CK)

 

[Dinsdale]

I hope there is Kingdom of Germany with powerful kings. Of course they had many troubles with inner oppositions but German kings (usually crowned in this period as Holy Roman Emperors) had much more power than for example French kings till XIV centuary and ruled most powerful state in Medieval Catholic Europe in the beginning of CK great campaign.

At the beginning of the game Henry IV has just surrendered lay investiture to the Papacy, the vassal states of the Empire have just demonstrated their power. The Concordat of Worms, decided even after Henry V had chased a couple of Popes from the Vatican still denied Emperors this power of patronage, while the French Kings managed to sustain some form of homage for sees two centuries later.

Was Frederick I able to raise a crusader army so much greater than the French and English Kings? Modern interpretation put the German army at 30,000 while the combined French and English army about 50,000. That hardly suggests a household which could finance more than his fellow monarchs.

What personal power did the Emperor have over Saxony, Burgundy or Bohemia for example, which would provide evidence that the Emperor had greater command of his nominal vassals than the French?