Will the Empire of Brazil receive some sweet flavor?

[geogus]

I wonder if it would be pertinent to include an event about a possible coup in the monarchy in the event that a female monarch ascends to the throne after the death of Dom Pedro II and the country as avoided becoming a republic, to reflect what might have happened thanks to Dom Pedro Augusto, "the conspirator prince", which was already preparing plans and seeking supporters for this endeavor. In my opinion in case he succeeds in the attempt perhaps it could reflect an decreases in militancy in the aristocracy and conservative pops, to reflect the conservative belief in Brazil at the time that a male monarch was preferable to a female one, although this could also rise the militancy of the liberals in case slavery as been abolished .

Although I do not know how impactful to gameplay this might be, since we are yet to see how influential or not the monarchs can overall, I believe it would at least interesting to see an alt-history scenario such as this one. Since I am not quite active at posting in the forums it seems I cannot post links, so terribly sorry for that, however Wikipedia does have an article on him.

It is too early to make game suggestions about game mechanics, since we have very little to no info about the game itself.

By now, all we can do is talk about history in hope the devs see it and add as flavor in the game.

By the way, this Brazil history thread has grown pretty large, nice to see so many enthusiasts here

 

[gustavotoniato]

I know it's not good to keep reliving things. But, after 1.2. beta what do you think about the current flavor from Brazil? Ps: I revived the thread because the discussion that took place here is very rich and I believe it can still be useful to the community.

 

[Delterius]

I am entertaining the idea of a journal entry starting in early 1870 called The Republican Movement. It would represent the rise of republican militancy amongst the middle classes and those amongst the regional elites who were not connected to or beholden to the old boy's club in the imperial capital. Fulfilling political reforms here would allow the brazilian player to preserve the monarchy as an institution. Failing at them would see the possibility of civil war, or a republican coup by event. The reforms would be as follows:

1. Census Suffrage but not Universal Suffrage, to represent the (literate and elitist) middle class calls for electoral reform.
2. Cultural Exclusion and Abolition of Slavery, to represent what amounted to the very last burst of political support for the maintainance of the monarchy.
3. Elected Bureaucrats, to represent the calls for decentralization of the country and the enaction of a federalist compact.
4. Professional Army, coupled with a degree of industrialization and infrastructure development, to represent both the technocratic impulses in the army engineers corps and the more practical fears amonst the officers that Brazil could not defend itself in a war with it's agrarian base.
5. Total Separation, to reflect calls to end the confessional state especially in its relationship with new non-catholic subjects of the empire. And also as a means to solve the conflict between the monarchy and the catholic church at rome.

It is essentially the Sick Man of Europe entry, but for Brazil. Ideally each of these changes would be accompanied by a rise of militancy amongst the groups that they disfavor. Landowners should absolutely detest and become vindictive towards any state that abolishes their assets (ie their slaves). The middle classes should be finicky and ensconced on euro-centrism and francophilia to the point they aren't on board with Multiculturalism and Universal Suffrage right away, so really the petite bourgeois should consider themselves favored rather than the intelligentsia. Many in the army should see itself as a group of Men of Action, as opposed to the useless men of letters at the capital, strengthening it should be unwieldy for a monarchy that abhors the sort of meritocracy a professional army entails. And so on.

Do note that absent special laws in regards to political centralization I am lead to use suffrage rather than federalism and unitarism to simulate this particularly prickly issue of the time. If I had to reject everything I wrote so far and pick something else I'd like to see Brazil and the rest of Latin America deal with federalism in some way.

 

[gustavotoniato]

I thought about something similar in the case of conducting in Brazil. Despite the two wars that the country has already started, the liberal revolutions that took place in the same period still need to be represented. Until the Majority Coup took place, it was almost a miracle that the country was unified.

 

[The Goldfinch]

I know it's not good to keep reliving things. But, after 1.2. beta what do you think about the current flavor from Brazil? Ps: I revived the thread because the discussion that took place here is very rich and I believe it can still be useful to the community.

Honestly so many main global powers lack flavor that Brazil is really the smallest concern. Before any work on South American flavor, I would prefer to see:
1. UK
2. USA
3. Germany
4. Ottomans
5. Japan
6. Italy
7. China
8. EIC
9. russia
Each of these had very specific, unique issues of tremendous importance for the entire world, and is portrayed very poorly or not portrayed at all at the moment. (USA civil war, Meiji restoration, Frankfurt Parliament, communism in russia, warlord era in China, etc). List could go for a very long time before reaching Brazil

 

[Delterius]

List could go for a very long time before reaching Brazil

you seem to be under the impression that people don't know that already

 

[$ilent_$trider]

There’s also the what-if scenario of if Pedro II had a male heir if he wouldn’t have fought to keep Brazil a monarchy as well. He pretty much believed Isabel would not be a fit ruler (basically for lacking a penis) and most of the nobility and thr military believed her husband (who was French) would be the de facto ruler. Because, clearly Brazil was francophile but not that much.

 

[Delterius]

There’s also the what-if scenario of if Pedro II had a male heir if he wouldn’t have fought to keep Brazil a monarchy as well. He pretty much believed Isabel would not be a fit ruler (basically for lacking a penis) and most of the nobility and thr military believed her husband (who was French) would be the de facto ruler. Because, clearly Brazil was francophile but not that much.

The opposition to Isabel was real and it rested not only on her being a woman and on her husband's foreign status and impopularity, but also her religiosity. That said, I don't think this sort of thing fits Vicky3. For one Pedro is a child at game start. So, what, you have a 50% chance of having this content even being relevant? Plus, I think Victoria 3 is less of a 'great men make history' sort of thing, and more of a 'history often makes men great' deal. I think its better if we have to navigate a complex IG situation to ensure the reign of that third emperor, who is hopefully not a bald baby.

 

[$ilent_$trider]

Well, there’s the thing that any heir never dies of diseases or whatever. Although it would be nice of generals some times died as well in combat (but again, that should be handled in a way where the army/fleet doesn’t teleport back home).
I understand the reasoning around giving faces to IG leaders, but it bugs me a little bit that we have all these characters in the first place.

 

[gustavotoniato]

Honestly so many main global powers lack flavor that Brazil is really the smallest concern. Before any work on South American flavor, I would prefer to see:
1. UK
2. USA
3. Germany
4. Ottomans
5. Japan
6. Italy
7. China
8. EIC
9. russia
Each of these had very specific, unique issues of tremendous importance for the entire world, and is portrayed very poorly or not portrayed at all at the moment. (USA civil war, Meiji restoration, Frankfurt Parliament, communism in russia, warlord era in China, etc). List could go for a very long time before reaching Brazil

I understand your priorities, given the world we live in today, but I think you are ignoring that Latin America is one of the most promising places of the period. A lot happens in the region in the period, and a lot that is connected to the core game. By the way, I still think it was a mistake by the devs, understandable, but a mistake, starting the game in 1836 not catching the collapse of the Spanish Empire.

And as for Brazil itself, it is good to remember that Brazil was the largest Slave Empire on the planet, this has profound impacts on our society until today, any exploration greater than slavery in the societies of the period needs to pass through Brazil.