Will the authority mechanic railroad players into playing despotism?

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Zalthor

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There have been other comments by Wiz saying that, as long as your pops aquire their needs, they won't radicalize and may even become loyal.

Which means, if you are Full Absolutist, do make sure you are supplying bread and beer to your Pops, that way they won't have a reason to rebel.
 
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it should be possible to remain an absolute monarchy, but it should be really hard once your people become educated and so on.
"Grub first, then ethics", if your pops are better of than for example in the democracys that are bordering you why should they revolt? Does it not seem extremely stupid to overthrow the monarchy that probably did a better job than the nearby democracy? And you should not forget that unlike the nobility back then who of course would rather keep more of the money for themselves the player can choose to just hand out social reforms like candy (and hopefully this can be done without having to cheese the system like in vicky 2 where "losing" a few wars was required to get social reforms a bit early).
 
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"Grub first, then ethics", if your pops are better of than for example in the democracys that are bordering you why should they revolt? Does it not seem extremely stupid to overthrow the monarchy that probably did a better job than the nearby democracy? And you should not forget that unlike the nobility back then who of course would rather keep more of the money for themselves the player can choose to just hand out social reforms like candy (and hopefully this can be done without having to cheese the system like in vicky 2 where "losing" a few wars was required to get social reforms a bit early).
It shouldn't be that simple, I feel.
The player really is transcendent, but the government is not.
As devs said, an absolute monarch is only absolute so long as the ones with power in the nation believe he is absolute.
And passing social reforms may very well be a great way to piss them off and get yourself couped.
To get the political power away from the nobility and distributed in the hands of the ones who actually want social reforms, you'd need to guarantee their representation in the government.
That is to say, you'd need elections.

So in the end, an absolute monarch should have a far less stable and more rebellious country.
If he attempts to please the people, the reactionaries will be unhappy, if he doesn't, the liberals will.
 
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Yeah sure, if you want to deal with a gazillion rebellions.

it should be possible to remain an absolute monarchy, but it should be really hard once your people become educated and so on.
I'm really hoping they've come up with a replacement for "time for the annual Anarcho-Liberal rebellion" of Victoria II, which was neither fun nor challenging for the player (although the AI regularly had at least one major country turn bourgeois dictatorship every game).

But I agree that liberal democracies should have a strong advantage over authoritarian dictatorships in general, and I do worry about how the authority mechanism interacts with that.
 
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And passing social reforms may very well be a great way to piss them off and get yourself couped.
Hey guys you remember that revolution in france were the part above the shoulder was removed from many (or most?) nobles? Yeah continue trying to block the reform and lets see how the masses like that...
 
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But I agree that liberal democracies should have a strong advantage over authoritarian dictatorships in general, and I do worry about how the authority mechanism interacts with that.
Why should they though? Please name a few specific reasons where liberal democracies have a (big) advantage over authoritarian dictarships from a gameplay perspective? You have less control, but what do you gain in exchange? Better social reforms? At the very end of the timeframe nazigermany existed and the nazis did implement social welfare (only for germans of course) and in Vicky 2 if the fascists are the ruling party they automatically support ANY change in either direction. And long before that Bismarck implemented social reforms in germany as well (and i think for the time those were great?).
 
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Why should they though? Please name a few specific reasons where liberal democracies have a (big) advantage over authoritarian dictarships from a gameplay perspective? You have less control, but what do you gain in exchange? Better social reforms? At the very end of the timeframe nazigermany existed and the nazis did implement social welfare (only for germans of course) and in Vicky 2 if the fascists are the ruling party they automatically support ANY change in either direction. And long before that Bismarck implemented social reforms in germany as well (and i think for the time those were great?).
I guess the advantages appear in the long run. People in general and educated people in particular like you more, so you will get the benefits of emigration, high literacy and research rate.
 
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A democracy should in theory benefit the people in the long run, which in turn should in theory benefit your state. But things are not that simple and a lost war, could make things in a democracy worse and people would turn to a dictator to improve their lot or get revenge, like what happened in Germany. A democracy could also lead to the breakup of your country if for example some ethnicity wants independence and instead of a medium size country you end up with two small countries that are vulnerable to the authoritarian giant next door. A democracy can also be detrimental in the sense that people will want more benefits to them and less to the army just for them to be rolled by the militaristic neighbor and lose it all. So in short a democracy should not be better than an autocracy, both can be very powerful or very weak depending on the circumstances.
 
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I guess the advantages appear in the long run. People in general and educated people in particular like you more, so you will get the benefits of emigration, high literacy and research rate.
Nazi germany was not a democracy and I don't see why they should have a worse research rate than France on the contrary.
 
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I guess the advantages appear in the long run. People in general and educated people in particular like you more, so you will get the benefits of emigration, high literacy and research rate.
A pretty good modern counterexample of a (still...) functioning dictatorship would be china (i hate the lack of freedom of speech and that you constantly have to praise the CCP for example), but the system were they influence their economy into focusing at important technologies for the future and generally seem to have a strong focus on nature science as most asian nations is working really well and there are no signs of (a large enough) rebellion within the content population. Though the one child policy will cause massive problems in the future, when there are to many old people and to few young. Generally speaking a strong leader can influence his nation more, BUT this can both go into a good or bad direction.

And you probably mean immigration (pops come to a nation), but here the relevant question is does the nation benefit from them? If they are educated the answer is on average yes, if not then especially in case of nations with a good welfare system the answer is on average "absolutely ducking not", which is also the reason why the danish socialdemocrats! are currently trying to implement one of the strictest if not the strictest anti refugee laws in the entire EU.
 
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Nazi germany was not a democracy and I don't see why they should have a worse research rate than France on the contrary.
Nazi Germany only existed for 12 years. Its "success" was very short-lived (another disadvantage of a militaristic dictatorship - everyone hates you and gangs up on you). What scientific success they had was because of people who were born and educated under the previous regimes, and they screwed up big time by oppressing intellectual elites (imagine if Einstein was not forced to emigrate?). "Nazi science" like V2 rockets, jet planes, Tiger 2, late submarines had a terrible cost/effect ratio, and their nuclear program was not even close to the Allied one.
 
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Nazi Germany only existed for 12 years. Its "success" was very short-lived (another disadvantage of a militaristic dictatorship - everyone hates you and gangs up on you). What scientific success they had was because of people who were born and educated under the previous regimes, and they screwed up big time by oppressing intellectual elites (imagine if Einstein was not forced to emigrate?). "Nazi science" like V2 rockets, jet planes, Tiger 2, late submarines had a terrible cost/effect ratio, and their nuclear program was not even close to the Allied one.
Oh come on dude, what about meiji Japan? That modernized and defeated Russia? Is that a democracy also? Or what about modern day China that will soon surpass the US in every scientific field possible?
 
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V2 rockets, jet planes, Tiger 2, late submarines had a terrible cost/effect ratio, and their nuclear program was not even close to the Allied one.
Lack of recourses (tungsten and oil for the jets for example) was a huge issue for germany, while the allies had everything in abundance. And the fact that declaring war on far to many nations at the same time is not a brilliant idea, maybe did also contribute a little bit to the downfall...
 
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But seriously now, looking from other modern pdx games, authoritarian nations will be the best, specially with slavery and all dependents working.

Slavery and serfdom will be good, because are free RGO production. Depending how enslavement will be, like conquering and displacing unaccepted cultures, this will be even better.

Child labor too, it decreases pop growth and literacy, but again, will be possible to stack modifiers to make it profitable and better in long term.

Women labor will be a must, to increase even more profitability (decreasing unrest too !!!).

Will people get upset? Of course, but considering how revolts are underwhelming in EU4, Hoi4 and Stellaris, due mechanics and modifiers, is safe to say that they will be underwhelming here too (compared to Vic2). Vic2 systems are before EU4 ones, were rng based.

Again, if your empire is rich and people are getting their bread and circus, everything is fine. So authoritarian countries will be viable too.
 

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A pretty good modern counterexample of a (still...) functioning dictatorship would be china (i hate the lack of freedom of speech and that you constantly have to praise the CCP for example), but the system were they influence their economy into focusing at important technologies for the future and generally seem to have a strong focus on nature science as most asian nations is working really well and there are no signs of (a large enough) rebellion within the content population. Though the one child policy will cause massive problems in the future, when there are to many old people and to few young. Generally speaking a strong leader can influence his nation more, BUT this can both go into a good or bad direction.

And you probably mean immigration (pops come to a nation), but here the relevant question is does the nation benefit from them? If they are educated the answer is on average yes, if not then especially in case of nations with a good welfare system the answer is on average "absolutely ducking not", which is also the reason why the danish socialdemocrats! are currently trying to implement one of the strictest if not the strictest anti refugee laws in the entire EU.
Modern China is pretty unique, but it lags massively in fundamental research compared to the US and Europe. There is a reason many Chinese go to the western universities, but almost no one goes to study in China except linguilsics students who study Chinese.

Yep, immigration, I always mix the two up. About net effects of uneducated people immigrating to your country - it wasn't a problem in Victorian times, so I think it's better to model it as a positive thing in any case.
 
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Oh come on dude, what about meiji Japan? That modernized and defeated Russia? Is that a democracy also? Or what about modern day China that will soon surpass the US in every scientific field possible?
Ah yes, Russia, the shining democracy. And I don't say authoritarian states can't be successful, just that they are in the long run not as successful as liberal democracies.
Fears about China are overblown out of proportions. It's massive and dangerous, but it's nowhere close in surpassing the West in anything, and it's aging faster than the West while losing a lot of educated young people to the Western countries.
 
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Fears about China are overblown out of proportions. It's massive and dangerous, but it's nowhere close in surpassing the West in anything, and it's aging faster than the West while losing a lot of educated young people to the Western countries.
I already wrote that aging is indeed a problem, but aside from that and maybe the trouble their environmental polution will still cause them. They absolutely are on the path of surpassing the US as the greatest economic power and dont forget that due to their massive size they can just throw billions at whatever research problem were they are still behind the "west" or just buy the leading company if corrupt/stupid politicians are unwilling to block the purchase as happened in the case of "KUKA" a former german robotics company that because of its ties to china is currently having trouble (most big companies are not dumb enough to do business ties that would involve giving secret info to KUKA). But the knowledge is certainly now in chinese hands...
Edit: I could go on about them strategically securing rare minerals as well...
 
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I already wrote that aging is indeed a problem, but aside from that and maybe the trouble their environmental polution will still cause them. They absolutely are on the path of surpassing the US as the greatest economic power and dont forget that due to their massive size they can just throw billions at whatever research problem were they are still behind the "west" or just buy the leading company if corrupt/stupid politicians are unwilling to block the purchase as happened in the case of "KUKA" a former german robotics company that because of its ties to china is currently having trouble (most big companies are not dumb enough to do business ties that would involve giving secret info to KUKA). But the knowledge is certainly now in chinese hands...
The key thing is "being massive". They have 1.4 billion educated citizens, mostly urban. That's what causes any success China has, not its authoritarianism. And throwing billions to buy something other people invented is not a systemic solution to the lack of fundamental research.
 
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The key thing is "being massive". They have 1.4 billion educated citizens, mostly urban. That's what causes any success China has, not its authoritarianism. And throwing billions to buy something other people invented is not a systemic solution to the lack of fundamental research.
Sorry but you don't understand the basics of power, if the elites of a country and its population are more or less supporting you (like what is the case now for China) then your country will outperform democracies. Now look at Tunisia a young democracy in North Africa that still struggles with economic matters and had essentially no growth in the 10 years after the downfall of their dictator because their political elites are too fragmented to enact the reforms needed so much so that Tunisia is today at the brink of bankruptcy. So yeah democracies are better for the people but not always, if you have a too fragmented political field things come to a stand still and everyone loses because none of the political parties wants to make concessions or even worse these political parties are conspiring with outside powers to gain the upper hand domestically etc. Authoritarian regimes are generally worse for the people but not always, an authoritarian regime that builds factories and uplifts people from abject poverty is better than a fragmented democracy than blocks every project just for political gain.
 
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