Will the authority mechanic railroad players into playing despotism?

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Hertzila

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negative values might be harder to use if you want to make modifiers, like +20% authority of 10-6 be 12-6=6; 10-6+1=5 or even, if the math goes wrong, 12-7.2=4.8
True, the UI side might need clarification of what goes where. Programming-wise, it's more about design, since it's not hard to specify the order of operations correctly and what modifier goes where. It would almost certainly be best to first sum every additive modifier together, before dealing with multipliers.
 

Belph

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Honestly it seems like the game is encouraging revolutionary despotism which is pretty historically accurate IMO. If you want radical social/economic change done quickly you are gonna need to step on some toes, otherwise you are going to spend the whole game slowly pushing your pops to accept piecemeal reform.
 

Vohen

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Authoritarian xenophobe slaver empires will be the meta then.
Only if you want to be fighting tanks with sticks in the 20th century, on a fully agrarian economy, I imagine.
If you want to industrialize, have a good military and have sustainable finances, you'll probably want your pops to be wealthy and literate.

Agreed. While we only have limited glimpses of the UI right now, this sounds like one of those cases where the numbers should be flipped around.

Instead of base +100 and every law giving you more, it would be more like "Base Value +1000" and every law reducing it. Oligarchy -0, National Supremacy -0, Freedom of Conscience -100, Right to Assembly -150, to use the modifiers in the dev diary. It would more clearly show that by defaut, an absolute monarch would personally be very powerful and be able to affect things as they see fit, but each liberal law passed reduces it.
I agree, but it may be the case of them wanting to avoid negative numbers for the sake of good game design.
 
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MinhowMinhow

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Only if you want to be fighting tanks with sticks in the 20th century, on a fully agrarian economy, I imagine.
If you want to industrialize, have a good military and have sustainable finances, you'll probably want your pops to be wealthy and literate.
Not necessarely, my 24th century authoritarian xenophobe slaver empire was the most powerful empire on galaxy, with huge fleets, supported with huge industries pumping alloys and consumer goods.
What applies in 24th century can apply well in 20th century.
 
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Belph

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Not necessarely, my 24th century authoritarian xenophobe slaver empire was the most powerful empire on galaxy, with huge fleets, supported with huge industries pumping alloys and consumer goods.
What applies in 24th century can apply well in 20th century.
Fun fact, Stellaris is a video game, and wants you to have fun playing [insert evil space empire]. It is not a good indication for how to model a hypothetical 20th Century society.
 
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Hertzila

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Not necessarely, my 24th century authoritarian xenophobe slaver empire was the most powerful empire on galaxy, with huge fleets, supported with huge industries pumping alloys and consumer goods.
What applies in 24th century can apply well in 20th century.
Stellaris also basically, or rather almost completely, lacks the internal simulation that is so crucial to Vicky 3. Of course there aren't any Jacobin rebels in your fantasy universe, the game can barely handle the pops as they are now. Adding the internal instability systems Vicky has would melt your CPU.

Also, Stellaris a science-fantasy game purpose-built to allow you to play as schlocky b-grade sci-fi and sci-fa empires, one of which is a futuristic empire that is incredibly advanced yet inexplicably still relies on manual labor. So of course it has mechanisms to allow for that.
That shit won't fly in Victoria, since it's far more about historical simulation and it actually has mechanics to screw you over if you carelessly go for the absolute monarchy route, particularly when combined with the attitude of "My people are the best and everyone else can screw off" and "Why have peasants when you can have slaves". Better hope your military doesn't turn coat over to the Jacobin side.
 
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Belph

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And Vic3 is not video game, and it's don't want player to have fun?
Is it really big deal? I always think paradox games is about roleplay and making your country the way you want it to look, and not the way metaphysical meta dictates.
If your definition of fun is enslaving (simulations of) real people in the (simulated) real world in a "xenophobic slaver empire" I have some bigger questions, but everything we have seen about Vic 3 has billed it as a "society builder", and for that aspect to function properly it needs to show poular resistance to slavery, both from slaves and abolitionists, which means your slaving empire is going to be crippled from internal dispute, see the USA. Not to mention that slaves aren't actually good for an industrial economy, but that's a different discussion.
 

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Only if you want to be fighting tanks with sticks in the 20th century, on a fully agrarian economy, I imagine.
If you want to industrialize, have a good military and have sustainable finances, you'll probably want your pops to be wealthy and literate.
Cannonfodder doesn't need to be literate, and you can always buy the guns in Russia.
 

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If your definition of fun is enslaving (simulations of) real people in the (simulated) real world in a "xenophobic slaver empire" I have some bigger questions, but everything we have seen about Vic 3 has billed it as a "society builder", and for that aspect to function properly it needs to show poular resistance to slavery, both from slaves and abolitionists, which means your slaving empire is going to be crippled from internal dispute, see the USA. Not to mention that slaves aren't actually good for an industrial economy, but that's a different discussion.
Good dodging and strawman, but you still didn't answer my question.
 

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Good dodging and strawman, but you still didn't answer my question.
I did answer your question. Victoria is not the same game as Stellaris, and they exercise different principles. Stellaris is about being a bootleg version of the Imperium/Federation/Galactic Empire/Borg/whatever and crushing your foes on the galactic stage, and so any idiosyncratic empire can "work" because it's not about modelling internal politics. Victoria meanwhile, is about managing competing influences within your country that may be for or against your agenda. If you want to create a slave-based empire, you are going to spend most of your time managing internal dissent which will stunt your growth, because you can't allow your pops to get educated/independently wealthy, since that will make their uprisings all the more potent. Managing that is the fun in Victoria, and just letting the player do awful things with no consequences "because they want it that way" would destroy the principles the game is based on.
 
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But Vic3 is a video game and slaves can rebel and there are factions in Stellaris.

You can enslave people in an industrial, but xenophobe empire, this slavery was called colonization, and was very profitable in Vic2.
 
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I did answer your question. Victoria is not the same game as Stellaris, and they exercise different principles. Stellaris is about being a bootleg version of the Imperium/Federation/Galactic Empire/Borg/whatever and crushing your foes on the galactic stage, and so any idiosyncratic empire can "work" because it's not about modelling internal politics. Victoria meanwhile, is about managing competing influences within your country that may be for or against your agenda. If you want to create a slave-based empire, you are going to spend most of your time managing internal dissent which will stunt your growth, because you can't allow your pops to get educated/independently wealthy, since that will make their uprisings all the more potent. Managing that is the fun in Victoria, and just letting the player do awful things with no consequences "because they want it that way" would destroy the principles the game is based on.
Well, now you answer my question somehow. Personnaly i can't care less about slavery, i can't remember even one my empire/country in paradox game where it was allowed. I agree what action must have consequensience but they should be based on logical justificatioт, and not on "muh good" or "muh evil" methafthisical things.
 
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Vohen

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Cannonfodder doesn't need to be literate, and you can always buy the guns in Russia.
Yeah, I suppose China is the one exception to what I said.
 

prismaticmarcus

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And Vic3 is not video game, and it's don't want player to have fun?
raping, pillaging, massacring and subjugating is not everyone's idea of fun.

of course it's...um...situational... :rolleyes:
 
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Abaddon55

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In regards to the new Vic III dev diary, if higher authority from despotic laws makes it easier to get things done, and lower authority from democratic laws make it harder to get things done, will Victoria III's meta be to turn your country authoritarian if you want anything to happen?

Kind of like how Hearts of Iron IV penalizes the player for having a Civilian Economy and encourages a "Total War" economy and thus the meta is to get there as quickly as possible, even though in reality having your economy focused only on war goods would cause a lot of problems in the long run.

If this is the case my hope is that playing democratic and having relatively low authority would confer other bonuses to make a democratic playthrough possible.
There's a reason it was done so often when people wanted rapid change
 

Make Victoria 3

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Wiz's answer seem to suggest that he believes that, generally, people will be unhappier, unhealthier and less wealthy. I guess we'll have a better idea of how it all fits together once we know all the mechanics.
The next response from Wiz: "Voting rights don't directly increase the wealth of pops, but they do give them the ability to push for social reforms that benefit them, which in turn may mean the player is able to get those reforms passed."
So it is not that he thinks democratic pops should be happier by default, rather enacting social reforms will make them happier.

And here about the possibility to do whatever (at the risk of a coup): "Absolute monarchs never actually had absolute power, an absolute monarch without a power base is not going to remain a monarch for much longer. It would perhaps be interesting to always allow laws to attempt to be passed by an absolute monarch but realistically if all power is held by the landowners, trying to pass universal suffrage should result in a rapid coup."
 

Limbojack

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Yeah sure, if you want to deal with a gazillion rebellions.

it should be possible to remain an absolute monarchy, but it should be really hard once your people become educated and so on.