point of this thread is moot since wiz confirmed that the asian units are getting buffed so *shrug*
thanks wiz
thanks wiz
Will the Asian tech group ever be buffed?
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That's right. China can reduce the penalty to 35% using appropriate faction. They also are very rich so they can hire 3 stars advisors from start, giving them a huge tech advantage over their neighbours.
Yeah that's only China, if you want as say Malacca or Aythuayya or Korea. Granted Ming was always kinda screwy since EU III I remember the good old yellow blob that would invade Central Asia and Russia.
Ming is... a weird country to play as. While only Russia is a real threat, that means 99% time your strategy is about monarch points. More than ANY other country. Want to fight wars? Buff temple. Want stability? Buff bureaucrats. Seriously, how you play those guys without colonizing? Ming with colonies must be boring as hell.
Question but if you form China with the Manchus, do you inherit the damn faction system?
Question but if you form China with the Manchus, do you inherit the damn faction system?
point of this thread is moot since wiz confirmed that the asian units are getting buffed so *shrug*
thanks wiz
Why does that make the point of the thread moot? That only helps with respect to staying asian tech v. westernizing when your gripe was that the tech costs and base tech meant that staying current (which is what would be needed to unlock better troops) was too difficult and made it very hard to take a MIL idea.
Though easier to call the point of the thread moot than defend hyperbolic assertions I guess.
Also....Wiz's comment is a bit ambiguous. Are we getting a sneak peak at an Art of War update or is he referring to the current system where they get better troops vis-a-vis western compared to older versions of the game.
Wiz's comment couldn't have been any clearer. I have nothing to gain from arguing with you when Wiz directly answered the question I asked in the OP.
Might want to re-read your OP. Didn't mention anything about unit pips. It was purely a rant about the +60% tech costs and a suggestion that they be switched to the same penalty as Muslim tech. :rofl:
Question: Will the asian tech group ever be buffed?
Answer: They are getting better units at least.
There's more than one way to skin a cat. Lessening their tech malus is one option, paradox is choosing to buff their units directly instead.
Answer: They are getting better units at least.
There's more than one way to skin a cat. Lessening their tech malus is one option, paradox is choosing to buff their units directly instead.
Nope, the factions are tag specific, and Qing has no factions, which is to me is a lot better.
Doesn't matter, European domination of Asia did not happen until more towards the Victorian era. I would not mind to much if Europe can pwn Asia in the 18th century, just being able to ship 30k+ troops there in 1500 or so and win is a bit implausible. For me its not the Europeans pwning Asia that is the problem, more the scale of it and the time frame involved.
[video=youtube;K3dbd2YyeN0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3dbd2YyeN0[/video]
Well, to be honest, I'd say that 100% should equal unconditional surrender, although it should be much more difficult to achieve. When considering many historical conquests were made impossible with how it currently works (and instead missions were put in place for the more-famous cases,) it does seem to be a noticable problem.
I'm really not a fan of warfare in the games, but I suppose it seriously bugs me when Missions (to cheapen warscore costs) are required for a possibility for a historical outcome. The warscore system still feels unintuitive, especially for new players.
Not sure if this is just trolling...
I've exclusively played in Asia since game launch and have to say it has gotten a lot better. Since the removal of the MP penalty and addition of focus I am having no trouble keeping up to date in military technology with european powers. Heck I even got ahead of time penalty with my recently started Japan game and had to get offensive idea group all filled out. Walking all over other asian AI that doesn't know how to focus and russia is only a challenge when it has stupid lucky nation 5/5/4 generals. Otherwise Asia start is quite a push over.
I might move onto Europe in my next game and finally try what the game was made for
I might move onto Europe in my next game and finally try what the game was made for
Agreed. The issue isn't so much that European units are superior, it's that European nations can project absurd levels of power well beyond their shores in the mid-game. Speaking frankly, Western units should be, lb for lb, unquestionably superior by the 1600's and especially by the end of the thirty years' war.
I think the real issue is Westernization and its reliance on a tech disparity. Ideally, non-European nations would tech as fast or almost as fast as European ones. What should hold them back are their units and maybe give them a really ugly idea cost penalty, let's say you double it. That way the general bureaucracy of ROTW nations is comparable to European ones, which for most of the game they were, but they don't necessarily have the same institutional refinements (central banks to deal with inflation, specific military focuses, etc.) that ideas represent. After Westernizing, if they ever do, filling out their idea trees would serve as an incredibly quick way to bring them up to parity. This kind of system has two problems - first, you'd need to create naval military groups otherwise the Europeans would never recreate their historical naval supremacy; second, how to handle westernization? I think we all agree that it should be caused by a notable disparity between the western powers and the nation in question, so what in-game functions should be used to represent that?
I would also argue that there's an issue with transports; the AI perceives them as being very useful - and they are. However, a transport fleet that operates in the Mediterranean to ship the occasional garrison out from Nice to Corsica isn't the same thing as a transport fleet that takes Spanish conquistadors to Mesoamerica and the Philippines. Do we need two types of transports? Should we be able to embark troops onto "ferries" for coastal tiles and inland seas? I'm not really sure. That being said, if transports were utilized in a narrower context, you could up the price on them to the point where only the big boys invest in them and only in limited numbers.
Keep in mind that by the end of the period they were a big deal behind the Euros, it seems fair that they have the 60% extra cost. Although I agree that the 2/2/2 tech should be higher to start with.
I'd argue it should be a burden to play a Asian nation, at least once the Euros break the door down.
Also it's a sandbox game, if some empire managed to weaken Ming, ie punch out some of the other Chinese states, who's to say that them becoming a protectorate is unrealistic? It doesn't seem insulting to me...
Pretty much. Tech penalty is far from insurmountable. You can play a horde without ever reforming government, and the penalty is way higher for them. It just doesn't make sense that Chinese tech starts out lower than Nomad.
I'm betting this refers to custom units which were mentioned in the Art of War.