Size 25 planets dont grow on trees, so it more likely equal to 8 planets or more in several systems.
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Will superstructures be worth it?
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Size 25 planets dont grow on trees, so it more likely equal to 8 planets or more in several systems.
Making a Gaia World through Terraforming is a super resource and time-intensive process, using up all of your max energy cap, with both strategic resources.
And that is not even a guaranteed 25-size world (although the ringworld might spawn blank and devoid of its own natural resources.)
Additionally, it creates you room for 100 pops, possibly in a system where you couldn't previously have any, while for Gaia worlds... well, you could use them before they became Gaia too, at that point in the game, with the extra habitability and Tomb World techs.
With that in mind, creating the ringworld will certainly have a tremendous bill. My guess is ~40-50k Energy Credits over the course of the event AND other things the event chain might require.
Also it might take considerably longer to build than terraforming a Tomb into Continental into Gaia. 50 years at least, my guess. Sounds boring but it's built in multiple stages, maybe something happens every few years or so, so you don't forget you're building a ringworld.
Though to be fair, making a ringworld will be -far- more exciting than terraforming 4 Gaia Worlds. Completely new habitable planets!
And that is not even a guaranteed 25-size world (although the ringworld might spawn blank and devoid of its own natural resources.)
Additionally, it creates you room for 100 pops, possibly in a system where you couldn't previously have any, while for Gaia worlds... well, you could use them before they became Gaia too, at that point in the game, with the extra habitability and Tomb World techs.
With that in mind, creating the ringworld will certainly have a tremendous bill. My guess is ~40-50k Energy Credits over the course of the event AND other things the event chain might require.
Also it might take considerably longer to build than terraforming a Tomb into Continental into Gaia. 50 years at least, my guess. Sounds boring but it's built in multiple stages, maybe something happens every few years or so, so you don't forget you're building a ringworld.
Though to be fair, making a ringworld will be -far- more exciting than terraforming 4 Gaia Worlds. Completely new habitable planets!- 2
I don't mind if they end up being mostly a trophy. It's still nice to have some goals beside "conquer X".
Such as your SOUL
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They seem useful to me, here's why.
So let's say you're surrounded on all sides and can't expand anywhere.
You have a system in your borders that has whatever amount of planets is required, but they're uninhabitable, or colonizable but very small planets.
This is where the Ringworld comes in. I'd say, yes, this is very useful in this situation.
This is a very similar situation, except you don't require X amount of planets this time. You want energy and have some system with very few planets and they're not very valuable? This is very useful for you.
Again, non-inhabitable planets are often not that great, you can build mining stations or research stations but those are individually not very amazing. This is, by default, very useful for anyone.
Again, trading a single non-inhabitable planet for full galaxy wide sensor range? Where do I sign?
So let's say you're surrounded on all sides and can't expand anywhere.
You have a system in your borders that has whatever amount of planets is required, but they're uninhabitable, or colonizable but very small planets.
This is where the Ringworld comes in. I'd say, yes, this is very useful in this situation.
This is a very similar situation, except you don't require X amount of planets this time. You want energy and have some system with very few planets and they're not very valuable? This is very useful for you.
Again, non-inhabitable planets are often not that great, you can build mining stations or research stations but those are individually not very amazing. This is, by default, very useful for anyone.
Again, trading a single non-inhabitable planet for full galaxy wide sensor range? Where do I sign?
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The thing is, if you have the resources to build one, you could use those resources to conquer your way out of being boxed in. On the other hand, if you do not want to fight your way out for roleplay reason or another, then maybe.
It rally depends on the actual cost.
Basically, it all boils down to "how much will they actually cost". If you need to pay 500 k minerals to get a +100 energy/month Dyson Sphere, perhaps it's better to just trade with an enclave. If you need to pay 1 million minerals and energy to get the full sensor range thingy, maybe it's better to just conquer everyone. And the Research one may come at a time when most of the techs have already been researched.
In the end we have to wait and see.
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Yeah, but I think if they would be unreasonable for what they give they would be eventually adjusted, and based on what @Wiz said, they shouldn't be super demanding, since he talked about some years.
But I have no doubt they are definitely late game projects. That might mean for a smaller empire, they could be a bit too steep, and they could even snowball very large empires, but we will just have to wait and see what happens.
The way I see it, they look like very good investments. Who knows what 2 Dyson spheres can fuel? Ring worlds then are just artificially made perfect-worlds.
Even better if you conquer a megastructure rather than building your own.
Even better if you conquer a megastructure rather than building your own.
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Oh wow. That sounds hella cool.Trust me, if you manage to get in 1500+ years (I have) repeatable tech decides everything, the galaxy becomes a bloodbath, and surprisingly if you protect smaller empires, they out tech larger one even without research agreements, resulting in a swarm of mini empires akin to fallen empires in strength
However I'd gotten so far with repeatable tech a single battleship of mine reach 700,000 fleet strength, the lances just never stopped firing (basically no weapon cool down) and a single ring world system produced all I needed (including science)
After a while I just declared war and started cleansing all of his planets, with my borders expanding each time I did. Eventually his empire was dead and I owned the whole galaxy whilst only populating a single ringworld.
Bet you few people have ended a play through like that
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Late game lag dissapeared once there were fewer empires present as well. It appears that the more AI you have in a game the more laggy it gets in mid/late game. So I can say AI coding is where paradox should focus to reduce late game lag
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How much do you think they're going to cost? An individual battleship is like 2000 minerals, and you might need a hundred of them. I doubt any of these are going to cost 200,000 minerals.
I feel like invading the "Beacon of.." FE is far more usefull than building a ringworld and, depending on how many resources does the structure need it could also be easier.
And, ofc, it gives you planets with special reources and OP power/mineral plants.
The only way, to me, for ringworlds to be useful in large empires is by having special buildings or unique bonuses.
Wow that sounds really crazy!Trust me, if you manage to get in 1500+ years (I have) repeatable tech decides everything, the galaxy becomes a bloodbath, and surprisingly if you protect smaller empires, they out tech larger one even without research agreements, resulting in a swarm of mini empires akin to fallen empires in strength
However I'd gotten so far with repeatable tech a single battleship of mine reach 700,000 fleet strength, the lances just never stopped firing (basically no weapon cool down) and a single ring world system produced all I needed (including science)
After a while I just declared war and started cleansing all of his planets, with my borders expanding each time I did. Eventually his empire was dead and I owned the whole galaxy whilst only populating a single ringworld.
Bet you few people have ended a play through like that
The thing is, you may either already own Becon of Stability, Infinity and Perpetuity; the FE may be located on the other side of the galaxy or they didn't spawn to begin with.
To be honest I'd create those megastructures and similar late-game-extravagant-stuff even if it offered no real benefits, just for my own satisfaction and enjoyment "goddamn, no other game allows me on doing so epic, cool things"
Of course balance things are still very important. But personally I treat Stellaris mainly as a simulation-roleplay game.
Of course balance things are still very important. But personally I treat Stellaris mainly as a simulation-roleplay game.
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The fact that "fighting your way out" is seen as the only logical move and that the ability to sit and defend your borders and not paint the galaxy is "a roleplay thing" is the problem, and its why stuff like orbitals and ringworlds are being added.
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On the sensor and science one, it's worth noting that the dev diary says that, unlike Dyson Spheres and Ringworlds, you start getting benefits with the first step onward.
Also, as Adamsrealm said, repeatable techs do in fact make a difference if and when you get that far in the tech tree (they're what makes FE so dangerous ship for ship even when you have all the TV/VI weapons and armor after all)
Also, as Adamsrealm said, repeatable techs do in fact make a difference if and when you get that far in the tech tree (they're what makes FE so dangerous ship for ship even when you have all the TV/VI weapons and armor after all)
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Maybe, we don't really know how it will work out. But your larger fleet that is buffed by the dyson sphere plus your allies that you really should have as a taller polity then it should be possible to fight them.
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Clearly there needs to be a path to get the fallen empire super-buildings. Maybe a repeatable tech that gives +1 to mines or powerplants or hydroponics instead of the repeatable +5% techs?
Presumably if tall play is balanced then the tall player could defend thier cool space construction
Right. If they're priced appropriately, you're not 'wasting resources' on them, you're investing the resources in growth the same as if you were colonizing planets and building labs and energy plants. They have a big up-front cost so there's likely to be a period of time during which you'll be weaker than if you spent the resources on other things, but once you get out of that window you should end up stronger in the long run.
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