Will superstructures be worth it?

[xxaxx]

I don't have much issue with the whole "realism" factor some people have when it comes to superstructures, but i am a bit more worried about the balance of it all.

If the dev diary is to be believed these structures will require a huge amount of resources to complete and i'm just wondering will that make them viable as an actual goal or will they purely be used as a "trophy" when you're empire is at a level when it can almost steamroll everything?

Let's take the Ringworld for example, at the end it will provide 4 gaia worlds, but if we're to assume it will take a vast amount of resources to complete what will exactly make it better than let's say 4 planets you colonize with robots/synths? Sure you take a small energy hit, but if you make two of them pure energy planets and the other two mineral/science what is the benefit to pouring huge amount of resources into 4 planets? I know everything isn't known, but unless there are significant bonuses to these planets it seems to me to sound more like a trophy than anything else.

Same goes for the other three. Will it be viable to halt your expansion somewhat to pour resources into these structures and when they are built have an actual advantage or will the lack of expansion and fleet be a big disadvantage for not much return?

I'm kinda hoping these structures once completed to make an actual impact and maybe break the kinda monotonous midgame.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

The Dyson Dodecahedron has the most straightforwards advantage- built in an otherwise energy-poor/uninhabitable system, you're investing in a HUGE future energy income- something that could fuel an armada, or perhaps power a massive droid workforce.

 

[smjjames]

You're not forced to build the megastructures. If you don't want to build the megastructure, then don't take the ascension perk.

 

[xxaxx]

You're not forced to build the megastructures. If you don't want to build the megastructure, then don't take the ascension perk.

I fail to see your point.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

You're not forced to build the megastructures. If you don't want to build the megastructure, then don't take the ascension perk.

If the perk is basically purely aesthetic, what's the point of having it?

If you build something this cool, it should be proportionately useful as it is impressive-looking.

 

[Ghost_bride]

I'm scared that the science megastructure might not be worth it right now ?
If megastructures are late game, there wouldn't have much more important technologies to research, unless it gives points for ascensions perks and such..

 

[klingonadmiral]

Ring worlds will be useful for the sole reason that there is a core system limit and unless you run very high habitability multipliers you won't run into systems with 2 or more large habitable worlds all that often. By getting a ring (or heaven forbids multiple rings) you get a extremely strong imperial core that can quickly raise warfleets.

Dyson spheres seem the most "boring", but also probably the most practical. You can never have enough energy, and if you have "too much" energy, use that damn energy!

I don't really see the point of the Sensor Array and the Science Hub though, at least not in their full levels. Research becomes increasingly unimportant later in the game because you have basically researched anyhting but repeatables. And instead of getting that +5% kinetic weapon damage a bit earlier, you could rather build ships from the minerals and energy it costs. The same with the sensor array, why pay what is probably a massive amount of minerals and high energy maintenance to see the whole galaxy?

It would certainly help if we would get some numbers for a change. If the Dyson sphere doesn't produce a few hundred energy credits at least, it doesn't seem worth it.

 

[Mann42]

• The Ringworlds seem like a great way to facilitate playing tall (if you're into that) or to consolidate small or otherwise useless systems in your empire into a major population center. It also lets you maximize your core systems potential.
  
• The Dyson Sphere has the most straightforward benefit. If it provides sufficient energy it will help free up slots on planets for more science, mining, or special effects.
• The Science Nexus seems to be a nice way to turn a completely useless planet into a huge science boost.
  
• The Sentry Array gives you sensor coverage of the whole galaxy, which is a really nice perk provided you can build it early enough.

All except the Ringworld appear to be ways of transforming barren worlds and uninhabitable systems into something valuable, which to me is a much more flavorful and exciting way to interact with barren systems (as opposed to just building habitats on everything).

The balance will be tricky, but this is a Paradox game, so I'm not too worried about that. It'll get patched as many times as it needs to until it feels good. Eventually.

 

[TerrBear]

I don't have much issue with the whole "realism" factor some people have when it comes to superstructures, but i am a bit more worried about the balance of it all.

If the dev diary is to be believed these structures will require a huge amount of resources to complete and i'm just wondering will that make them viable as an actual goal or will they purely be used as a "trophy" when you're empire is at a level when it can almost steamroll everything?

Let's take the Ringworld for example, at the end it will provide 4 gaia worlds, but if we're to assume it will take a vast amount of resources to complete what will exactly make it better than let's say 4 planets you colonize with robots/synths? Sure you take a small energy hit, but if you make two of them pure energy planets and the other two mineral/science what is the benefit to pouring huge amount of resources into 4 planets? I know everything isn't known, but unless there are significant bonuses to these planets it seems to me to sound more like a trophy than anything else.

Same goes for the other three. Will it be viable to halt your expansion somewhat to pour resources into these structures and when they are built have an actual advantage or will the lack of expansion and fleet be a big disadvantage for not much return?

I'm kinda hoping these structures once completed to make an actual impact and maybe break the kinda monotonous midgame.

They would be purely a vanity project, by the time you can build them you have either won the game or would be better off spending the resources winning the game, while your neighbour spends x amount on building a megastructure just spend the equivalent on building a fleet = get a nice megastructure for free.
The science one is pointless as you can focus your efforts on science regardless and by the time youl be able to get it most science projects will be done.
The radar thing one is pointless because seeing everything doesn't help you win... Just spend the resources instead yano... winning(plus there's no point ever building more than one, just steal your neighbours one).
I don't think they add anything into the game than more timers to be sitting around waiting to finish beyond obviously 'ooo thats pretty'.

 

[klingonadmiral]

The Ringworlds seem like a great way to facilitate playing tall (if you're into that) or to consolidate small or otherwise useless systems in your empire into a major population center. It also lets you maximize your core systems potential.

I don't really know if they truly faciliate building tall. They probably still require a massive amount of minerals on top of shredding every planet in their system, and when it comes to raw resource production nothing beats wide empires.

To me they seem more of a way for wide empires after a period of vast expansion (both in territory as well as in density by settling previously unsettled worlds in their territory) to consolidate their core holdings into a proper center of the empire.

 

[Cagliostro]

This is a good point, actually - for example, terraforming is scarcely worth it as the game stands, unless you are playing strictly one race. And making a world a gaia planet takes too long, comes too late in the game, and has too little punch to really be worth the effort.

 

[Fourthspartan56]

It absolutely could worth it for the polities who can access it, i.e tall polities. Which is exactly the point of them, sure a sprawling polity would most likely only build them as a vanity project but a taller polity could use a Dyson sphere to fund a navy far larger than their empire size would normally allow, and ring world could provide extra planets. It just seems like they would be very useful for a tall polity and less useful (if not impossible) for a wider polity which suggests that yes it could be worth it.

 

[TerrBear]

It absolutely could worth it for the polities who can access it, i.e tall polities. Which is exactly the point of them, sure a sprawling polity would most likely only build them as a vanity project but a taller polity could use a Dyson sphere to fund a navy far larger than their empire size would normally allow, and ring world could provide extra planets. It just seems like they would be very useful for a tall polity and less useful (if not impossible) for a wider polity which suggests that yes it could be worth it.

But the wide empire can steal them off the 'tall' ones, so while yes you could fund a larger fleet with a Dyson sphere (we assume) all that time and resources pooled into that will not save you from an empire which has instead used the same time and resources for expansion.
As they say 'don't put all your eggs in one basket'.

 

[Zelius]

They would be purely a vanity project, by the time you can build them you have either won the game or would be better off spending the resources winning the game, while your neighbour spends x amount on building a megastructure just spend the equivalent on building a fleet = get a nice megastructure for free.
The science one is pointless as you can focus your efforts on science regardless and by the time youl be able to get it most science projects will be done.
The radar thing one is pointless because seeing everything doesn't help you win... Just spend the resources instead yano... winning(plus there's no point ever building more than one, just steal your neighbours one).
I don't think they add anything into the game than more timers to be sitting around waiting to finish beyond obviously 'ooo thats pretty'.

That is purely your speculation. Perhaps wait to see how it's balanced?

Plus, not everyone wants to focus on 'winning', if by that you mean achieving the victory conditions or wiping everyone else out.

 

[Adamsrealm]

I'm scared that the science megastructure might not be worth it right now ?
If megastructures are late game, there wouldn't have much more important technologies to research, unless it gives points for ascensions perks and such..

Trust me, if you manage to get in 1500+ years (I have) repeatable tech decides everything, the galaxy becomes a bloodbath, and surprisingly if you protect smaller empires, they out tech larger one even without research agreements, resulting in a swarm of mini empires akin to fallen empires in strength . I just sat in my corner and watched, eventually one empire won and basically flatten the whole galaxy except me.

However I'd gotten so far with repeatable tech a single battleship of mine reach 700,000 fleet strength, the lances just never stopped firing (basically no weapon cool down) and a single ring world system produced all I needed (including science)
After a while I just declared war and started cleansing all of his planets, with my borders expanding each time I did. Eventually his empire was dead and I owned the whole galaxy whilst only populating a single ringworld.

Bet you few people have ended a play through like that

 

[Zavaleta]

Trophies. But everyone wants a least one on their desk.

 

[TerrBear]

That is purely your speculation. Perhaps wait to see how it's balanced?

Plus, not everyone wants to focus on 'winning', if by that you mean achieving the victory conditions or wiping everyone else out.

I mean dominating your neighbours, expanding etc, if people would prefer to sit in their corner of space and never be attacked because the ai knows its suicide by you building too 'tall' then... well tbh i don't think megastructures will make that gameplay any more fun.

 

[Diezy]

They're pretty comparable to Wonders. Big up-front cost and they take a long time, and you'll likely have to protect them from being dismantled, but will be really rewarding if complete! I'll certainly give all of them a try!

Wide might still be the way to go, as Megastructures cost a lot of time and resources, you'll have to play some clever diplomatic games not to get rushed by some expansionist in early-mid-game, when they WILL possess the means to crush you. Also you don't have to be a tall empire to build them. I mean, why not both far flung and megastructures? (I suspect that similar to science, their build time and cost will be higher the more star systems you own, just to even it out)

Also not having to cancel your Dyson because a Dyson was already complete around a far away star is a pretty nice thing!

 

[Gaussia]

I see a risk that the Superstructures will become to Stellaris what Canals are in Eu4. Cool ideas and a nice thing to build when the game is "won" to who off you empires strength, but never something that actually changes the game.

Hopefully they have learned from the canals and will do different this time.

 

[Madzai]

They're pretty comparable to Wonders. Big up-front cost and they take a long time, and you'll likely have to protect them from being dismantled, but will be really rewarding if complete! I'll certainly give all of them a try!

They are not, and that's bad. IMO. Wonders are usually available very early and though whole party. Currently Mega-structures looks like endgame Space ship from Civ and similar end-game projects, but instead of being a Win condition, they provide huge bonuses, in a time where the winning party is kind of obvious. And if it's almost end of the party and winner isn't decided, investing in such a project instead of solving actual problems isn't the best strategy.

On the other hand, if 1.5 manage to make the mid-game less predictable and add real challenges that don't allow to get an upper hand easily, that would be a major achievement and then, may be, Mega-structures become actually useful.