Will Sevilla steer to Genoa? Isn't unhistorical?
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I'm more worried about Portugal, rather than Spain with this change. At least Spain has Barcelona and Valencia, 2 trade ports or estuaries in Genoa. France can have Provence and can conquer Genova.
Portugal has nothing in Genoa.
Portugal has nothing in Genoa.
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I don't think countries will manage to steer a lot from Seville.
Remember that Spain + Portugal have, potentially, huge fleets. Countries in the Genoa node will normally have no land in Seville, and have fewer ships than Portugal and Spain combined. It will be mostly an end node, kinda like Constantinoples.
Remember that Spain + Portugal have, potentially, huge fleets. Countries in the Genoa node will normally have no land in Seville, and have fewer ships than Portugal and Spain combined. It will be mostly an end node, kinda like Constantinoples.
This topic is hilarious. I don't think any change to Genoa/Sevilla is planned. It is most likely a misunderstanding. You can leave panic mode, nothing to see here.
/Edit: Okay, I was wrong.
/Edit: Okay, I was wrong.
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It's a plausible change and the evidence is cited in the first post.
And the "panic" is justified. End nodes are that (too) good. A country controlling an end node can use 100% of its trade fleet to suck in more trade. A country collecting in a regular node has to devote a lot of ships to preventing trade leakage even if the node is fully controlled.
But the solution is not to argue about which countries deserve an overpowered end node, it's to nerf end nodes so they aren't worth "panicing" about.
If the AI actually used privateers efficiently that would go a long way. End nodes are overpowered because they can hold onto unlimited gold with no trade power. Those kinds of nodes should be swarming with privateers.
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I think the sailors being from southern spain is a fairly big historical myth, The Genoans were seen by the spanish as master sea farers, im not really sure why as the Aragonese were famed for their piratical seamen. The Spanish took a lot of the glory for funding the Genoan expeditions. Genoa being a city state built on personal wealth, rather than state enterprise lead ot them being unable to have the finance to risk losing a small flotilla of ships. While Genoa didnt exactly take part in their own personal colonising as Galaahd said they did often create towns mostly all over in spanish territory, there are still areas in south america where Italian is the second language. I'm not entirely sure where the spanish ships were built, but the designs for their early navies were almost entirely Genoan.
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http://www.enchantedlearning.com/explorers/1500a.shtml
Only a little part of the explorers/conquistadores were italian, also the place of born of Christobal Columbus inst clear.
The ships of the first travel of Christobal Columbus (La Pinta, La Niña y La Santa María) were made in Spain and the crew was selected by Martín Alonso Pinzón ( a spanish) who was the capitan of La Pinta. I dont search all spanish expeditions, but this is a proof that in the benning the expedition "was spanish" (except Columbus). Spain was able to make his own ships. The areos of South American as Italian as a second language are form inmigration of the XX and XIX centuries (mayority in Argentina and Uruguay) You can said that the design was genoan (I dont know) but if the ships were made in Spain, they are Spanish. Spain selected capitans from all his personal possesions (España, Portugal, Naples, Sicily, Milan, ect). Also if the expedition is paid by Spain and the capitan works for Spain, and the crew of the ship is spanish, the expedition is Spanish.
And the other thing is that Spain has as enemy the "Black Legend" (Legenda Negra)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend
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I'm not saying it wasnt a spanish expedition, I'm just saying there is far more influence from the Genoans than history gives it credit for. If you discovered a major new landmass with the historical prestige this gives you, you are going to try and limit the thought that actually it was a joint effort, especially when you are the stronger party. I also never denied that the important command roles on the ships were spanish, but I can't see it being at all likely Columbus was alone as a Genoan, especially as the explorative comradary of the two nations. The Spanish were still fairly new to naval matters at this point in history, having only recently managed to expell the moors from the Iberian peninsular. Especially the fairly recently conquered southern Spain.
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Its not like having an outflowing node is going to magically remove all the income from your trade node.
It's perfectly possible to play a trade game as a nation not located at an end node. Sure you have be active about dunking randoms that send trade fleets, but hey, that's kind of a good thing, right?
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The place of birth of Columbus is very clear - there are records about his birth and his whole family, evidences in contemporary and slightly successive writers; "Columbus was Spanish" is revisionism, started in the early 20th century, and before Ulloa no one - in 400 years - ever said that he had been Spanish. Sorry, the only unclear part is where, exactly, he was born - some towns near Genoa claim the honour usually given to the main city - but he was Genoan, and other theories have literally no basis out of "he spoke Spanish badly, in a way that resembled Catalan".
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Sevilla goes to Genoa now, the idea is to force Spain to care about Europe instead of just sitting in their peninsula.
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so
genoa is endnode
bordeaux goes to champagne which goes to genoa? it's an option for france now to move trade capital to genoa and steal/collect big spanish trade income (just send lightships as much as u can to two nodes)
will AI France / Spain now put a higher priority on beating up Italians, via missions or some other magic? Even if France hasn't annexed Savoy (which can typically take a while since they often seem to go for the Austrian separate peace instead of taking Savoyard provinces)?
anyways, if Portugal really wants the authentic end node experience, they can always camp Zanzibar / Cape ('muh history').
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Why is this a problem? Spain already gets a huge influence in Italy through their PU with naples. It will add fluidity and depth to what can sometimes be a slightly stale part of the map.
I would presume there will be a couple of missions and events added. Historically Spain and France wrestled over the region quite a lot. I would imagine there is something like France have gained Milan or Genoa, Spain cannot leave this injustice, spain gains claims on a block north of italy, or something similar but in reverse.
How about complete removeal of end trades?
All the trade power is in constant movement and there is a bigger trade competition.
All the trade power is in constant movement and there is a bigger trade competition.
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Then you could make circular trade routes and earn infinite money.
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I agree with you, people have suggested similar in this thread let alone others. I'm not sure how easy it would be to work though, or how they could create it in a balanced way. It would be quite nice to see the removal of trade directions but I can only see it being something that could be entirely too easy to take advantage of. I imagine the mechanics would be quite difficult to get to work in a way that will be fair. Even so, trade goes both ways, you have to swap something for something, the invisible hand will have its vengance!
Try getting out of Europe sometime and you wouldn't cry as much Forum Bahbees.
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Will the English Chanel go to Champagne or Lubeck so that England cares about Europe instead of just sitting in their island?
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