Will Sevilla steer to Genoa? Isn't unhistorical?

[saegoto]

it wasn't. my assumption is based on the following facts:

• Bordeaux will lose its end node status, as confirmed by multiple screenshots that show merchants steering from Bordeaux to Champagne.
• a screenshot confirmed that Champagne now feeds into Genoa, while the trade route linking Bordeaux directly to Genoa has been axed.
• a new achievement will be added for trade domination in English Channel, Venice and Genoa.
• the trade route between Genoa and Sevilla will be maintained (it's visible on screenshots), albeit we don't know its direction.

while the choice of trade nodes for the achievement may well be arbitrary, i'm inclined to believe that it simply encompasses all end nodes in the game (since we know Bordeaux lost its status, two out of three end nodes left are already included in the achievement).

of course it's still possible that trade will go from Bordeaux through Champage and Genoa to Sevilla, but it doesn't seem very likely to me. i may be wrong, of course.

(in addition to that, one of the devs mentioned in the multiplayer thread that Genoa is such a wonderful node now. it hardly proves anything though.)

Genoa as an endnode that can steer from new world (sevilla), germany (champagne), medi (regusa) and Asia (alexandria) would be an unconsidered decision IMHO.

Merchant republics have fallen after discovery of new world and african route to india. Making Genoa the best node in the game is unhistorical.


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It will. Confirmed.

 

[ahyangyi]

But it doesn't make the whole trade system more unhistorical than before

 

[saegoto]

in time frame europe dominated world trade. Portugal, Spain, Netherlands, England and France, they excelled in these process. Endnodes near these countries are fine and accurate. Venice, Genoa and Hansa experienced strong crisis. Hansa in 18th centry no longer exists and the Italian merchant republics have never had such meanings as in the Middle Ages.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

Please tell me that Paradox is not removing Sevilla end node.

 

[Frederick III]

I'd like it if trade could steer inland from the new world. Give nations in Italy the ability to become colonial powers.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

I'd like it if trade could steer inland from the new world. Give nations in Italy the ability to become colonial powers.

But how?

You could add one route from the Carribean to Genoa, that is historical (genovean merchants in the carribean), so you deleteBordeaux as an end node and make Genoa one end node. But some of the new world trade should end in Seville.

 

[Freudia]

From a gameplay perspective this is an improvement. It's no longer a complete waste to go colonial as a nation in Italy unless you conquer all of Spain, so that's a pretty big plus in my opinion.

 

[Nikolaj-11]

As the system works now this seems fine.

In truth I wish it was a tiny bit more sophisicated, it is a wish of mine that if Paradox make a Eu5 that trade will flow in both directions without those looping-endless money generation bugs.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

From a gameplay perspective this is an improvement. It's no longer a complete waste to go colonial as a nation in Italy unless you conquer all of Spain, so that's a pretty big plus in my opinion.

As the system works now this seems fine.

In truth I wish it was a tiny bit more sophisicated, it is a wish of mine that if Paradox make a Eu5 that trade will flow in both directions without those looping-endless money generation bugs.

I agreed that is an improvement, but you are sacrificing trade in Spain for make trade relevant in Italy, in history the New Word ruined the Italian Merchant Republics. So, trade in New World should end in Spain, you should could get Genoa as an end node, but you cant delete te Seville.

 

[Freudia]

I agreed that is an improvement, but you are sacrificing trade in Spain for make trade relevant in Italy, in history the New Word ruined the Italian Merchant Republics. So, trade in New World should end in Spain, you should could get Genoa as an end node, but you cant delete te Seville.

What ruined Italian republics was the Ottoman control of the Meditteranean, not the New World. The New World was a side effect.

Also, as someone who cares more about the gameplay and has no bias towards the Iberians, I am totally okay with sacrificing Iberian trade domination for general game improvements.

 

[Alerias]

If there's only 3 end nodes now and 2 are in Italy that could be interesting. In SP control over northern Italy will be as desirable as it was in EU3 when the region was carpeted with Universities.

 

[Galaahd]

If we want to be precise, spanish exploration and expansion in America was funded by italian bankers, mainly from Genoa.

IIRC most of the silver mined in the spanish colonies ended, in fact, in Genoa.

As for the goods, they were obviously shipped to Italy as well.

 

[Golladan]

This is still just based on speculation, right?

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

This is still just based on speculation, right?

Yes I think so.

 

[Thrac]

Trade should go both ways.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

Trade should go both ways.

Yes but only one way at time (If you have enought trade power you could invert the trade route direction)

 

[Rabid]

This is still just based on speculation, right?

Yes, trade flow in Europe has definitely changed but the only reason to think that Genoa is now an end node is the existence of that new achievement.

I would be fine with the new trade setup as proposed by the OP though, for gameplay reasons, as it strongly encourages Spain and France to move into Italy so that they can dominate Genoa and make all the money.

 

[Gans]

Trade should go both ways.

Yep I never really understood why it goes one way only. The same way trade power decides the retained and pushed forward value, it could decide which way the trade is going. It could go both ways actually at the same time, like country A steers 40% this way, country B steers 40% that way. Most end nodes are already being dominated from the start by certain counries anyway, Venice, Seville comes to mind, by changing the mechanics they would still be earning like crazy since their TP would retain almost everything in place.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

Yes, trade flow in Europe has definitely changed but the only reason to think that Genoa is now an end node is the existence of that new achievement.

I would be fine with the new trade setup as proposed by the OP though, for gameplay reasons, as it strongly encourages Spain and France to move into Italy so that they can dominate Genoa and make all the money.

But that ruins gameplay of Spain and France because thay have to conquer Genoa, a thing that they didnt because they not needed Genoa. You have just delete 2 end nodes of two nations that deserve and make one for one nation that in the time period of EUIV enter in decadence.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

Genoa as a endnode that can steer from new world (sevilla), germany (champagne), medi (regusa) and Asia (alexandria) would be an unconsidered decision IMHO.

Merchant republics have fallen after discovery of new world and african route to india. Making Genoa the best node in the game is a wrong, unhistorical bullshiet, to be honest.

PLS PDX DON'T DO THIS.

What ruined Italian republics was the Ottoman control of the Meditteranean, not the New World. The New World was a side effect.

Also, as someone who cares more about the gameplay and has no bias towards the Iberians, I am totally okay with sacrificing Iberian trade domination for general game improvements.

You are misunderstood, the uneasy relationship between the ottomons and the merchant republics did not cause the downfall of mediterranian trade. The downfall was caused by the utter dominance of Venice. Remember Christopher Columbus was a Genoan, and the expedition sailors were also mostly Genoan, as was the design of the boats. The Ottomans, while expansionist did not as much destroy mediterranian trade as much as taking out their main rival for sea power, when you destory the main trader, trade will diminish. Remember at this point the Venetian arsenal could build a new ship every day. I don't see it as unfair at all that Genoa get the chance to be a part of the new world trade nodes, they were a huge part in the search for the new world.