Will peace deals finally be fixed in the new DLC?

[Delpheus]

The #1 worst problem in the game right now is the horribly broken peace deal system, and a complete lack of diplomatic options like reasonable white peace or "less than 100%" capitulation deals. The "all or nothing" system and "ping pong passing" of the top two war score holders has been a disgusting and terrible problem with the game for years and we still have not heard one word about this being fixed.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

We will see. Maybe the Devs show us what´s new in Vids and give more Infos about that in the Dev Dirays. But one thing is for sure: The Game will get a very very big Refits for Bugfixes etc. in many Parts. That can´t be done in 1 big Patch and DLC, but in 2 or 3 big Patches and DLCs that´s possible.

And if the Devs uses the Help they get from Modders, much work can be saved internaly .

 

[bwhite9]

So far there has been no indication that peace deals will be updated this time. I hope they will get updated so peace deals like the winter war can be better represented.

 

[SRhistory]

haven't seen anything on this yet. To my believe the first dlc will be Poland and Barbarossa and the new railroad / supply system. Let's just wait till tomorrow. I am hoping on a next dev dairy with some updates and we know more what will be released soon.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

as well as fully Army with R & D as well as Production etc. etc. etc. That was already mentioned in the first Dev Diray.

 

[Kazakk]

I think they will not touch these other systems in this DLC. It is quite big already with new supply system and warfare changes. But I hope they will do it in the next, along with diplomacy and warscore.

 

[pro.gamer.69]

The #1 worst problem in the game right now is the horribly broken peace deal system, and a complete lack of diplomatic options like reasonable white peace or "less than 100%" capitulation deals. The "all or nothing" system and "ping pong passing" of the top two war score holders has been a disgusting and terrible problem with the game for years and we still have not heard one word about this being fixed.

The AI making shitty borders is one thing. However I'm fine with white peaces not being included, except for by event. This is a game based in a time where white peaces did not meaningfully occur, and they would be a feature which only players could really use.

 

[pdstanbridge]

Nooooooooope. Probably not unfortunately. Peace deal mods are great!

 

[Iskulya]

Definitely not even remotely close to the most pressing issue with this game. Delpheus makes a bunch of threads about this every time a new DLC is on its way and nothing has changed.

Playing in the MP community, I've literally never heard anyone even mention peace conferences as far as needed game changes go. The reason is because when they happen, it is either when Japan curbstomps China and annexes everything with no other participants other than Manchukuo, or when the Co-Propsperity Sphere and Axis have been defeated, or when the Allies or Comintern have surrendered. Barring t he first situation, which is irrelevant because Japan will have all the warscore anyway, the other scenarios either mean the war is virtually over or literally over.

Peace conferences are only really a significant issue if you're playing a meme campaign and competing against great powers to try to snipe every bit of land you can. So it's interesting that on the one hand, we have people yelling about peace conferences, which are mostly only an issue in meme campaigns; but on the other, people complaining that there is too much emphasis on alternative history? Ah, the duality of man.

A working logistical system and improved AI there is frankly a much bigger game changer than any kind of tweak to peace conferences. Tired of having to use the console and tag over to delete my allies' armies because they keep squandering supply. Also tired of seeing the outcome of the war decided in the first few weeks of Barbarossa 4/5 times with good players on all sides because either the Soviets stop the Axis cold or get immediately encircled and annihilated with no possibility of a comeback. Done right, the new logistics and a rebalanced Soviet Union that is a bit weaker to compensate for the additional burdens on the Axis could be literally game changing and lead to a more fun, engaging, and realistic war.

Doctrines, planning bonus, and the battle planner are also in significant need of reworking. Peace conference fixes and improvements are definitely something that should be done, but in terms of its importance it's not only FAR from being the most important issue in the game, it's not even in the top three. Some people just like getting on their bully pulpit and making a lot of noise, but it's not nearly as pressing as some people like to present it.

As others have mentioned as well, Player Led Peace Conferences mod is a great workaround. The only issue with it is that as a demand, you cannot get co-belligerents to puppet or satellite tags. True, we need a real, official solution, but as a matter of priority the developers should focus on issues that can't be solved by modders, and this seems to be what they're doing to some extent. Whether we will see more changes with doctrines, battle planner, planning, etc remains to be seen, but the news with logistics is a hopeful sign.

Hopefully we will see a change in this DLC in respect to peace conferences, but I doubt it. Honestly, as a matter of priority, it's not worth focusing on at the expense of more significant issues so don't be surprised if nothing changes on this front.

 

[GrandVezir]

So it's interesting that on the one hand, we have people yelling about peace conferences, which are mostly only an issue in meme campaigns; but on the other, people complaining that there is too much emphasis on alternative history?

At a guess, those are different people.

 

[Vityviktor]

I think some sort of scripted (ir semi-scripted) system should trigger in some cases, like Nazi victory in Barbarossa, preventing them from annexinh the whole Russia and/or puppeting a "Fascist Russian Empire" like it happens in vanilla.

 

[Delpheus]

Definitely not even remotely close to the most pressing issue with this game. Delpheus makes a bunch of threads about this every time a new DLC is on its way and nothing has changed.

Playing in the MP community, I've literally never heard anyone even mention peace conferences as far as needed game changes go. The reason is because when they happen, it is either when Japan curbstomps China and annexes everything with no other participants other than Manchukuo, or when the Co-Propsperity Sphere and Axis have been defeated, or when the Allies or Comintern have surrendered. Barring t he first situation, which is irrelevant because Japan will have all the warscore anyway, the other scenarios either mean the war is virtually over or literally over.

Peace conferences are only really a significant issue if you're playing a meme campaign and competing against great powers to try to snipe every bit of land you can. So it's interesting that on the one hand, we have people yelling about peace conferences, which are mostly only an issue in meme campaigns; but on the other, people complaining that there is too much emphasis on alternative history? Ah, the duality of man.

A working logistical system and improved AI there is frankly a much bigger game changer than any kind of tweak to peace conferences. Tired of having to use the console and tag over to delete my allies' armies because they keep squandering supply. Also tired of seeing the outcome of the war decided in the first few weeks of Barbarossa 4/5 times with good players on all sides because either the Soviets stop the Axis cold or get immediately encircled and annihilated with no possibility of a comeback. Done right, the new logistics and a rebalanced Soviet Union that is a bit weaker to compensate for the additional burdens on the Axis could be literally game changing and lead to a more fun, engaging, and realistic war.

Doctrines, planning bonus, and the battle planner are also in significant need of reworking. Peace conference fixes and improvements are definitely something that should be done, but in terms of its importance it's not only FAR from being the most important issue in the game, it's not even in the top three. Some people just like getting on their bully pulpit and making a lot of noise, but it's not nearly as pressing as some people like to present it.

As others have mentioned as well, Player Led Peace Conferences mod is a great workaround. The only issue with it is that as a demand, you cannot get co-belligerents to puppet or satellite tags. True, we need a real, official solution, but as a matter of priority the developers should focus on issues that can't be solved by modders, and this seems to be what they're doing to some extent. Whether we will see more changes with doctrines, battle planner, planning, etc remains to be seen, but the news with logistics is a hopeful sign.

Hopefully we will see a change in this DLC in respect to peace conferences, but I doubt it. Honestly, as a matter of priority, it's not worth focusing on at the expense of more significant issues so don't be surprised if nothing changes on this front.

I play MP exclusively and sounds like we have very different groups and play styles. Peace deals are ALWAYS an issue in every game I've played with every major player.
Ping pong passing is by far the worst of it.

And I really hate when people call alternative history games "meme games" as if they're just a joke that doesn't matter. If the developers are going to give us fun and interesting alt history options and players actually want to enjoy that content, we should not be punished by a peace deal system that prevents us from enjoying that content.

I think people who consider anything other than historical to be a "meme" probably can't understand the issue. But the problem is much bigger than that.

Another example is territory stealing. For example, if japan takes the Dutch East Indies, they are locked in an endless war because they cannot get to neatherlands to defeat the overlord. There is no way to sue for peace at all to take the land they occupy. Now the really shitty part is Germany can beat neatherlands and they STEAL the land the Japanese occupy and there is absolutely nothing Japan can do about it...even though they occupy it. It's absolutely insane. And that's not the only situation this glaring problem applies.

There is so much potential for minor wars and conquests before the big war. Every dlc paradox has released has been more and more alternative history designed for that. But they don't give us a peace deal system that actually let's us use the new content they provided. In any competitive game you will be denied.

I still say this is the biggest issue because you can be prevented from playing the game in certain situations and you will have wasted hours of you time. It feels like such a waste to accomplish so much and then a broken peace deal system swipes land out from under your feet and magic takes over. It's insane to think that some magic spell just lifts all the Japanese unwillingly out of their trenches in the occupied DEI and replaces them with germans....

 

[Sourlol]

I think people who consider anything other than historical to be a "meme" probably can't understand the issue. But the problem is much bigger than that.

Another example is territory stealing. For example, if japan takes the Dutch East Indies, they are locked in an endless war because they cannot get to neatherlands to defeat the overlord. There is no way to sue for peace at all to take the land they occupy. Now the really shitty part is Germany can beat neatherlands and they STEAL the land the Japanese occupy and there is absolutely nothing Japan can do labout it...even though they occupy it. It's absolutely insane. And that's not the only situation this glaring problem applies.

Most of the alt history in hoi4 is so implausible, to call it anything else but a meme would in of itself be a meme. That doesn’t mean it isn’t fun—but it is absurd.

the issue with Netherlands, Japan and Germany, is well, don’t play with a selfish dick of a Germany. And if Germany takes the Dutch East Indies—declare war on them. Further, why would the Netherlands—reasonably safe from Japanese aggression in Europe ever sign a peace deal with Japan when it’s more than likely Japan will eventually get destroyed by the US, who under historical circumstances is an ally of the Netherlands and can liberate her colonies?

Ultimately it seems like the guy who is playing Germany is in the wrong, and if Germany is going to take occupied DEI from Japan—Japan should just declare war and take it back. Germany is in an equally terrible position to defend an invasion as Netherlands would be.

 

[Delpheus]

Most of the alt history in hoi4 is so implausible, to call it anything else but a meme would in of itself be a meme. That doesn’t mean it isn’t fun—but it is absurd.

the issue with Netherlands, Japan and Germany, is well, don’t play with a selfish dick of a Germany. And if Germany takes the Dutch East Indies—declare war on them. Further, why would the Netherlands—reasonably safe from Japanese aggression in Europe ever sign a peace deal with Japan when it’s more than likely Japan will eventually get destroyed by the US, who under historical circumstances is an ally of the Netherlands and can liberate her colonies?

Ultimately it seems like the guy who is playing Germany is in the wrong, and if Germany is going to take occupied DEI from Japan—Japan should just declare war and take it back. Germany is in an equally terrible position to defend an invasion as Netherlands would be.

There's a lot of problems here.

First I don't think it's absurd to play non-historical. If I wanted historical I'd watch a WW2 documentary. What's the point in doing things exactly like they happened down to the exact minute? Not hating on historical players, but I don't get it, why play if you're not trying to change things? It's not a meme at all to just want to see your favorite country do something different than exactly what already happened. Not fun IMO.

Second, I can't change the behavior of other people. I can't decide if the German player won't be a dick or not. That's out of my control. Even if a respectable player does get Germany, they would never consent to let me have that territory, for the oil. But that's my point -- I should not need their consent! If I take it, I take it, but the game let's them kick me out. That's STUPID.

Your solution to declare war on them is an even worse solution and only further shows just how bad the situation is. If I have to declare war on them to retake what I already had, my people were ALREADY THERE and now I have to invade again but this time it's Gemany... Just... What the f*ck? You can't be serious.

My point is right now the system has magic and gods who decide everything. Germany is basically playing god and uses magic to expel my forces from land I fought so hard to occupy. The game should have a system in place that doesn't rely on the "honor" system of players bestowed godly powers.

And it's not a crazy idea that hasn't been done before. Literally every other paradox game has a better peace deal system. EVERY other paradox game is better at this, so why is HOI4 the only one that's so bad?

In EU4, you can't take land you don't occupy. Stellaris, Imperator, etc. You have to actually own the land and you can't magically swipe it from the occupier.

The peace deal system really is the worst and makes MP unplayable.

 

[Jays298]

The peace system kind of breaks semi-historical games. Mainly from perspective of USA (China ends up having enough war score to annex Japan, Korea, etc., even if they did not do the heavy lifting and the US invaded Japan in a blitz like war. But the blitz doesn't reflect in the peace, only the long stalemate in the China-Japan war)).

Or the race for Berlin in 44 becomes a weird patchwork of three Germanies because the Soviets just can't get the momentum to break into real German territory. I've seen East Germany, West Germany, and still The Reich owning a few spots after the peace, especially in east Prussia.

Which basically means the game is over in 44 the map won't look right for a post-war confrontation of East vs West.

And if Germany does Sealion they get to take over the British Empire, Canada, etc. etc. When I would have rather seen the Empire continue on fighting rather than surrendering just because the two majors were occupied.

Which I guess is a seperate issue but still island countries (AI) seem unable to defend themselves properly leading to cheesy invasions.

Basically decisions like Yalta (or a focus like Yalta conference) maybe should be binding if chosen. With Yalta being sort of like the Moltotov Ribbintrop event in the sense of the territory needing to revert to the agreement regardless of who occupies it in the war.

 

[Delpheus]

HOI4 devs could learn a lot from EU4 peace deals. These are some things that can be brough to the HOI4 peace deal system.

-anyone can ask for peace at any time and can ask for what they want based on their warscore, to be granted or denied by the enemy leader
- you can ask for things other than land or making subjects, such as nullifying treaties or asking for reparations (you know, like how Germany had reparations forced on them after WW1)
-if you are a subject you can fight a war for independence as a war goal
-you can annul treaties and alliances
-you can also OFFER concessions as a way to end the war, surrendering and giving up some things without total 100% capitulation (this can be acceptable for the victor if they don't want to continue wasting time and resources on a prolonged war and still settle for less)
-the peace deal system can be accessed without pausing the game
-for emphasis, the peace deal system does not pause the game! The "your turn, my turn" system is a disgusting joke and everyone has to sit around and wait for the top 2 to finish ping pong passing and taking everything for themselves, even if YOU have the land occupied yourself.
-you can white peace to revert to pre-war conditions
-more

Deaths are also weighted too heavily in HOI4's warscore calculation. It actually is the opposite of logic. Because a nation that lost 99% of it's manpower but was on the winning side is not in a position to enforce their demands. Actually, losing so much manpower should give a penalty, also to incentivize smarter play.

Another thing that should probably be added in the ability to take ships, also like what happened at the end of WW1.

 

[Supremeleaderpies]

I wanted to share this bug I have never seen before in 2500+ hours of play.

So im playing the British Empire Achievement run and chose to go A- historical. Games been incredibly weird so far but all is well. Brief history. I focused on America in the beginning and left Europe to its own devices. The Balkan Entente...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Here is a save game from this week where peace conferences broke. lmao.

albiet this was a weird rare bug.
the game desperately needs a reworked peace conference system there are so many issues and bugs that result from peace conferences.

 

[TemporalAnomaly]

HoI's peace system will never be good.

 

[Spelaren]

I think some sort of scripted (ir semi-scripted) system should trigger in some cases, like Nazi victory in Barbarossa, preventing them to annex the whole Russia and/or puppeting a "Fascist Russian Empire" like it happens in vanilla.

Perhaps leaving the Soviet Union intact behind the Ural mountains? Obviously their airforce and fleet will have to be destroyed mostly, but some of their stuff should be able to escape.

 

[Delpheus]

HoI's peace system will never be good.

Maybe it is a stupid hope and dream that will never happen. ... Kind of why I moved to EU4. I don't think hoi4 will ever be fixed.