Will not purchase new games if sold through Steam

[Henry V]

I have enjoyed Europa Universalis and Victoria, but I am unlikely to purchase any new games if they are sold through Steam/ Valve Corporation. Here is the review I just posted for them at the Better Business Bureau site with the worst possible (0 on 1-10 scale) rating. Valve Corporation gets an F from the BBB, by the way. Note also the security issue caused by Steam.

My BBB review:

I recently tried to start a game for which I paid, and which worked in the past. I got a message to the effect that it would not work because an update needed to be installed (again, it had worked in the past) and it did not have access to the Internet. I had to reduce my firewall security setting to allow Steam to access the Internet to apply the update--I had actually been about to delete the game and demand a refund because the update did not appear to be working. When I went to Steam's site to ask for technical support, there was no way to submit an inquiry.

I really see no value that Steam adds to the product, and is simply a waste of money (since it obviously takes some of the money paid for the purchase) for both the customer and the game producer.

 

[Henry V]

http://www.bbb.org/alaskaoregonwest...ers/valve-corporation-in-bellevue-wa-27030704
BBB gives Valve Corporation an F based on the following factors:

Factors that lowered the rating for Valve Corporation include:

• 851 complaint(s) filed against business
• Failure to respond to 722 complaint(s) filed against business
• 9 complaint(s) filed against business that were not resolved
• Business has failed to resolve underlying cause(s) of a pattern of complaints

Factors that raised the rating for Valve Corporation include:

• Length of time business has been operating

 

[AndrewT]

When I went to Steam's site to ask for technical support, there was no way to submit an inquiry.

https://support.steampowered.com/newticket.php

 

[Wagonlitz]

While new games require steam to be downloaded you can actually play them without steam running; you only need steam for patches and new expansions. Though you will need to start they game outside of steam (which is perfectly possible) to not have steam nag you about wanting to go online.
And you can buy the game in the paradox shop to maximise the amount of money paradox gets and minimise the amount of money steam gets.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Partially related, the BBB is a scam. There are two aspects to a good BBB rating: closing issues (not solving them) and paying the BBB large sums of money.

Comcast has an A- despite 96.9% of their ratings being negative. They don't have to solve people's problems quickly or even well. All they have to do is "close" the issue, which could be as simple as saying "we're done dealing with this now".

 

[Henry V]

https://support.steampowered.com/newticket.php

The indicated link was not offered to me when I clicked on the help link that was given in the error message. If the resource exists, it was Steam's responsibility to make it available with the error message.

 

[Henry V]

While new games require steam to be downloaded you can actually play them without steam running; you only need steam for patches and new expansions. Though you will need to start they game outside of steam (which is perfectly possible) to not have steam nag you about wanting to go online.
And you can buy the game in the paradox shop to maximise the amount of money paradox gets and minimise the amount of money steam gets.

If it is possible to buy the game without involving Steam/ Valve Corporation, that is indeed the best option because Paradox (which actually produces value for the customer) and not Steam (a parasite that takes money without adding value) should indeed get the money.

 

[Wagonlitz]

If it is possible to buy the game without involving Steam/ Valve Corporation, that is indeed the best option because Paradox (which actually produces value for the customer) and not Steam (a parasite that takes money without adding value) should indeed get the money.

It is indeed possible to buy directly from paradox. Though be aware that you can't make it so that steam gets 0 money; they will still get a little due to being the distributer, but you will minimise their cut by buying directly from PI.

 

[Matt714]

I really see no value that Steam adds to the product, and is simply a waste of money (since it obviously takes some of the money paid for the purchase) for both the customer and the game producer.

Off the top of my head. Besides the easy installation and no-cd standard. (which is a big deal - e.g. Call of Duty Advanced Warfare requires 6 - Yeah, six DVD-roms - just like Unreal Tournament needed five CD-roms in 2004.)

Game overlay / tracking (hours, achievements) + workshop + automatized game updates + anti-cheat + community forums + marketplace + three-clicks away DLC.

Etc., etc..

 

[Wagonlitz]

Game overlay / tracking (hours, achievements) + workshop + automatized game updates + anti-cheat + community forums + marketplace + three-clicks away DLC.

Since when have their forums been especially good, achievements been worth anything (and similarly the with hours played feature), the auto updates needn't be good and sometimes even is detrimental, and the anti-cheat has previously given false results and led to false bans after which the petty officials at steam has declined trusting you claiming not to have cheated while claiming the anti-cheat system is infallible.
Steam is not God's gift to mankind; the no CD is nice. But that is pretty much it. And you could get that in many other ways.

 

[TinyWiking]

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles Henry V, I know first hand that Steam support has been a little "random" in the past, though from what I've heard it has improved massively over the years since I last spoke with them .

I'd just like to confirm that we will still depend on Steam for the foreseeable future. The simple fact is that Steam is the largest digital distribution platform in the world and taking our games elsewhere would be a massive undertaking. I'd love to have a Paradox launcher, or a Paradox digital distribution platform designed by us for all our games, alas I think that is something that remains to be seen.

 

[delpiero1234]

While new games require steam to be downloaded you can actually play them without steam running; you only need steam for patches and new expansions. Though you will need to start they game outside of steam (which is perfectly possible) to not have steam nag you about wanting to go online.
And you can buy the game in the paradox shop to maximise the amount of money paradox gets and minimise the amount of money steam gets.

Try to start EU IV without Steam running and you get a big warning saying that the game might malfunction without Steam running!

 

[Wagonlitz]

Try to start EU IV without Steam running and you get a big warning saying that the game might malfunction without Steam running!

That is because there once was a serious bug which came when steam wasn't running. That bug has since been fixed.

 

[delpiero1234]

That is because there once was a serious bug which came when steam wasn't running. That bug has since been fixed.

Then they could remove the warning, if the bug has been fixed. No reason to have such a warning if the bug has been 100% removed which is why I doubt that it has been completely solved.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Then they could remove the warning, if the bug has been fixed. No reason to have such a warning if the bug has been 100% removed which is why I doubt that it has been completely solved.

Pretty sure it was 100% fixed; I believe the warning stayed due to the possibility of another serious bug potentially being introduced in the future.

 

[themrwho]

Since when have their forums been especially good, achievements been worth anything (and similarly the with hours played feature), the auto updates needn't be good and sometimes even is detrimental, and the anti-cheat has previously given false results and led to false bans after which the petty officials at steam has declined trusting you claiming not to have cheated while claiming the anti-cheat system is infallible.
Steam is not God's gift to mankind; the no CD is nice. But that is pretty much it. And you could get that in many other ways.

This is so true.

 

[Woody Man]

Since when have their forums been especially good, achievements been worth anything (and similarly the with hours played feature), the auto updates needn't be good and sometimes even is detrimental, and the anti-cheat has previously given false results and led to false bans after which the petty officials at steam has declined trusting you claiming not to have cheated while claiming the anti-cheat system is infallible.
Steam is not God's gift to mankind; the no CD is nice. But that is pretty much it. And you could get that in many other ways.

Their forums can be particularly useful when seeking a quick solution to an issue and are generally not restricted. Achievements are not vital but are a nice to have, although a lack of mod support for achieves makes them worthless unless your game is great without mods. Auto-update is a great function, I really don't want to go back to searching out patches or having to download one when I open a launcher rather than it just starting when I turn on the PC. Steam works great, sure I hated it in 2003/4 when it barely worked and you could basically just play CS or DoD, but now - it gives me cheap games at the click of a button, organises them, enables easy mod access and gives me a game friendly way to casually chat with friends.

I'd love to have a Paradox launcher, or a Paradox digital distribution platform designed by us for all our games, alas I think that is something that remains to be seen.

Steam works fine for that, stuff like Uplay really turns me off.

 

[ForzaA]

Then they could remove the warning, if the bug has been fixed. No reason to have such a warning if the bug has been 100% removed which is why I doubt that it has been completely solved.

The thing is, we use a lot of libraries, APIs and whatnot during development.
The OS provides some, DirectX/OpenGL/.. provide some, and Steam also provides some.

Now, starting the game without any OS is pretty tricky to pull off, and few, if any, expect the game to run without DirectX/OpenGL or similar...
But it's not exactly unheard of that some issues are OS specific.

To avoid this as much as possible, we try to cover our bases and have people test on different platforms - still some slip through.


The same thing is true for Steam.

We test both with, and without, and yet issues might slip through.

What's different is that, if you run without Windows, you substitute it with something else (e.g. OSX) if you run without Steam, you substitute it with nothing (which is why we do try to avoid Steam APIs whenever possible)
However, running without Steam is also a lot easier to remedy for the user than it would be to run without an OS.
That is why Steam gets a warning, despite there being no known issues.

 

[gigau]

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles Henry V, I know first hand that Steam support has been a little "random" in the past, though from what I've heard it has improved massively over the years since I last spoke with them .

Well, in 2015, i've been in contact with them, related to my constant problems uploading my mod on Workshop... and i can only say it was underwhelming, very far from the level of satisfaction i've come to expect during my Paradox years (haven't talked about it here, as i know it's entirely Steam's fault).

So, although i won't stop supporting you guys... given the constant head-aches with nearly all my Workshop updates, i still whole-heartedly hate Steam.

 

[SAS]

I dislike Steam as a corporation, but love it since I have many many games and it auto updates them. It's a love hate relationship I guess...