Will HOI4 have the option for a more depth OOB?

[Bridger15]

I am not 100% certain you can name armies and army groups (I don't recall seeing it on stream?). I know you can name divisions and theaters, so it makes complete sense that you'd also be able to name armies and army groups, but i just can't remember seeing it :\

I expect (and hope) that we'll see a slightly more in depth hirearchy in future expansions. Even something as small as armies being grouped together under fieldmarshals.

 

[jamesd]

Can I ask a technical question --

With HoI4's new system -- is there anything preventing us from naming groups anything we like? I.e., not every group *has* to be labeled an "army" specifically? (This is a genuine question -- I'm not trying to be sarcastic in any way.)

In other words, you should be able to group 4 divisions and label it "1. Corps" or "XIX. Armeekorps", correct?

I'm someone who definitely regrets the fact that we're losing HOI3's OOB/CnC structure. But I also think that the way that structure was implemented in HOI3 needed a *lot* of streamlining and improvement. (For example, removing HQs and divisional level commanders -- given the *scope* of the game -- makes excellent sense in my view.)

What we're getting in HOI4 isn't ideal, in my view, but I can definitely live with it -- IF it's possible to do the kind of thing I've described above -- ?

I'm pretty sure we'll be able to name groups of units, as we've been able to do it in all 3 previous HOI's, but one of the problems facing players who want a more detailed structure for their armies in HOI4 will be a lack of leaders. There were many generals provided for major powers in earlier HOI games, but the vast majority of them have gone leaving just a handful of the better known guys for HOI4, and generating additional random leaders will require the spending of scarce political points.

 

[sandman2575]

I kind of assume that something as basic as being able to name 'armies' would be in the game, but I certainly do hope that is the case.

Playing as Germany for example, I can envision grouping larger groups of infantry divisions -- say 6 to 10 -- into Armies but naming discrete 'Panzerkorps' or 3 or 4 mobile/armored divisions and assigning those to generals like Guderian and Hoepner (since they were corps commanders at the outbreak of the war, and not yet full generals). Yes, those corps wouldn't be 'attached' to parent armies in any meaningful sense, but at least it would give a little flexibility for the purposes of the Battle Planner.

Although not my preference, I can live without HOI3's OOB structure provided there are (however imperfect) work-arounds like what I describe. However, if there's a serious lack of commanding officers available, that is going to just add to the pain of lacking the OOB. I *want* to be able to create and name flexible groupings smaller than armies -- corps essentially -- and if we only have a pool of mostly full generals and field marshals at our disposal -- that is frankly going to be a serious drawback.

 

[jalapen0]

I'm in the anti-OOB camp in regards to HOI3. It made me hate that game. I went back to HOI2. I think an OOB "could" be fun but it was really poorly executed in HOI3. It needs a way to correctly name things automatically how you want (like some kind of template naming scheme). It needs a proper gui. It needs an automated follow to keep HQ's behind troops properly with proper global commands (I want this level HQ to stay 2 provinces behind the line, I want this one to stay 5 steps back). It also needs to automatically link HQ's based on theater it is attached to and even area in the theater.

Maybe they'll add it in a DLC (which makes it optional). AND really sit down and figure out how to make it nice and playable without a million clicks and spending 2 hours to set up with 15 minutes of maintenance every hour. I know the super hardcore guys like it. I'm hardcore but not THAT hardcore. I think I could enjoy it but it needs to be completely redesigned from the ground up from how HOI3 did it. Just my opinion of course.

 

[sandman2575]

I guess I'm in the minority camp that (A) both liked HOI3's OOB and managed it obsessively and (B) thought it was flawed and needed to be seriously streamlined and improved for HOI4.

(I'm part of the even smaller minority that (A) really liked HOI3's Army-AI control feature and (B) thought it was deeply flawed and needed to be seriously improved for HOI4 : ) -- good news is, with the Battle Planner, it sounds like they've accomplished exactly that.)

I think if most people who liked HOI3's OOB are honest about it -- very much including myself here -- it's that they never paid much (any?) attention to the 'bonuses' that using the OOB structure granted. I was *never* aware of the bonuses I was getting by having an army be part of an army group with a particular trait commander which was part of a theater with a particular trait commander. It was a neat idea in theory that -- like HOI3's weather system -- was able to be completely ignored because it's impact on gameplay was either minimal or almost impossible to discern.

In other words -- for me, the OOB is mostly a convenient organizational scheme. I want something like the OOB in HOI4 because it facilitates organization, not because I expect it to include some mechanic that influences the outcome of battles in any way.

But the one thing I can never go back to is the "Stack = Army" days of HoI and HoI2...

 

[Nola]

Once you get a hold of it, you cannot do without it. Hopefully one of the future dlcs will include reintegration of OOB

 

[jalapen0]

Once you get a hold of it, you cannot do without it. Hopefully one of the future dlcs will include reintegration of OOB

I guess I just never "got" it. I tried, I really did. It just wasn't fun for me. I'd be happy to see it in a DLC, if they can make it fun.

 

[Cardus]

I'm in the anti-OOB camp in regards to HOI3. It made me hate that game. I went back to HOI2. I think an OOB "could" be fun but it was really poorly executed in HOI3. It needs a way to correctly name things automatically how you want (like some kind of template naming scheme). It needs a proper gui. It needs an automated follow to keep HQ's behind troops properly with proper global commands (I want this level HQ to stay 2 provinces behind the line, I want this one to stay 5 steps back). It also needs to automatically link HQ's based on theater it is attached to and even area in the theater.

Maybe they'll add it in a DLC (which makes it optional). AND really sit down and figure out how to make it nice and playable without a million clicks and spending 2 hours to set up with 15 minutes of maintenance every hour. I know the super hardcore guys like it. I'm hardcore but not THAT hardcore. I think I could enjoy it but it needs to be completely redesigned from the ground up from how HOI3 did it. Just my opinion of course.

I am in the OOB camp but I support your suggestion to have an HQ automatically tied up to its divisions. I am not sure why this was not developed (maybe because of lack of time or maybe because it couldn't be developed). In the first case, if HOI4 will be fixed (my personal opinion is that at the moment the game is broken because of fuel/logistic), I would buy a DLC on the OOB.

 

[lafollet]

does anyone know or have a list of all the generals in game for germany?
im disappointed that theyre getting rid of the oob. i didnt liked it at first, but after reading a number of german general memoirs, i grew to like the feature in hoi3.
it would be unfortunate if hoi4 only had the famous generals. i was just recently reading general hermann balck's memoirs and interview and hopefully hes in the game.

 

[linen]

You can have OOB when A.I is competent enough to employ it, not before, HOI3 was a mistake in this respect.

 

[Scutatus]

Are you saying you liked spending countless hours fiddling with those damn HQ units? That was the one part of hoi3 IMO that made the game very unenjoyable. I have nightmares about the hoi3 chain of command mess to this day... I guess paradox was trying to simulate the PTSD that war causes.

I LOVED that side of HOI3. Hearing that had gone in HOI IV actually put a frown on my face. As did learning that one cannot name Battalions or brigades. I realise that puts me in the minority, but that side of the game made HOI III an absolute delight for me personally.

And no, I'm not kidding. I'm serious. I WANT that Order of Battle dammit! It doesn't need to be as convoluted as it was before, but a little more than there is now - a nice compromise between the two - would be rather nice. ( For me, anyway).

 

[Lifthrasil]

I kind of assume that something as basic as being able to name 'armies' would be in the game, but I certainly do hope that is the case.

Playing as Germany for example, I can envision grouping larger groups of infantry divisions -- say 6 to 10 -- into Armies but naming discrete 'Panzerkorps' or 3 or 4 mobile/armored divisions and assigning those to generals like Guderian and Hoepner (since they were corps commanders at the outbreak of the war, and not yet full generals). Yes, those corps wouldn't be 'attached' to parent armies in any meaningful sense, but at least it would give a little flexibility for the purposes of the Battle Planner.

Although not my preference, I can live without HOI3's OOB structure provided there are (however imperfect) work-arounds like what I describe. However, if there's a serious lack of commanding officers available, that is going to just add to the pain of lacking the OOB. I *want* to be able to create and name flexible groupings smaller than armies -- corps essentially -- and if we only have a pool of mostly full generals and field marshals at our disposal -- that is frankly going to be a serious drawback.

Well, you can create "armies" without assigning a General. So you could create Groups of 5 Divisions, not give them a leader and call them Corps. The bigger Groups (10-20 divisions) get a leader and you call them "Army".
Leaderless armies dont have boni, but that is a workaround for having too few leaders.

 

[Scutatus]

Well, you can create "armies" without assigning a General. So you could create Groups of 5 Divisions, not give them a leader and call them Corps. The bigger Groups (10-20 divisions) get a leader and you call them "Army".
Leaderless armies dont have boni, but that is a workaround for having too few leaders.

If one must, one must. Now how do you work around the non-naming of battalions/brigades? Any ideas?

 

[jalapen0]

And no, I'm not kidding. I'm serious. I WANT that Order of Battle dammit! It doesn't need to be as convoluted as it was before, but a little more than there is now - a nice compromise between the two - would be rather nice. ( For me, anyway).

Be awesome to see OOB as the first DLC....as long as it's fun and not a clicky clicky fest.

 

[Lifthrasil]

If one must, one must. Now how do you work around the non-naming of battalions/brigades? Any ideas?

Kidnap podcats favourite teddybear and demand that brigade naming gets implemented?
Or call his mother and tell her that he makes you sad. That often helped when we were kids, right?

 

[Scutatus]

Kidnap podcats favourite teddybear and demand that brigade naming gets implemented?
Or call his mother and tell her that he makes you sad. That often helped when we were kids, right?

Of course, why didn't I realise?

 

[Barcode180]

You can always have a general in command of a smaller group of units. From what I can remember from the streams I'm pretty sure that you can have a lesser general in charge of a smaller group of units and have a higher ranking general in charge of a few of the lesser ranked generals. I could be wrong, I'd have to review the streams again to be sure.

 

[Scutatus]

You can always have a general in command of a smaller group of units. From what I can remember from the streams I'm pretty sure that you can have a lesser general in charge of a smaller group of units and have a higher ranking general in charge of a few of the lesser ranked generals. I could be wrong, I'd have to review the streams again to be sure.

Indeed, but the problem with this approach is that, if I understand correctly (?), there is not a limitless supply of Generals in HOI IV. For the first time in a HOI game you are limited to what looks like barely a dozen(?) commanders, give or take a few. That won't go very far if you are assigning them to Corps level formations.

 

[jalapen0]

Indeed, but the problem with this approach is that, if I understand correctly (?), there is not a limitless supply of Generals in HOI IV. For the first time in a HOI game you are limited to what looks like barely a dozen(?) commanders, give or take a few. That won't go very far if you are assigning them to Corps level formations.

I predict modding in additional generals in your future.

 

[Scutatus]

I predict modding in additional generals in your future.

I certainly hope so! It would sure go a long way to solving one of the OOB problems (for me).