Forgive me for asking, but where are the NATO symbols? I don't see them in the screenshot.
will hoi4 have counters like hoi3?
- Thread starter dasVerruckteJoe
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Ah, I see. Thanks! This whole time I was looking for the actual NATO logo.
What I said has everything to do with this discussion, because I was replying to questions above as to why some people prefer NATO counters to sprites.
As for "or didn't I see them", I have just had to load up a WWW stream to check that they did indeed have counters under them as you have just pointed out, because even though I have watched all the WWW streams I never noticed they were there!
So to answer your question, your right I didn't see them.
They are very small and Daniel spends most of his time in the game zoomed out beyond the range that the sprites pop up.
He is very much a macro player, where my playstyle tends to be more micro at a tactical level rather than strategic, requiring a more zoomed it approach.
It would be great to have the option of reversing the dominance of the counter and the sprite, so the counter is bigger than the sprite.
Edit: This would probably require additional info added to the counter though, like movement direction information (arrow) for example.
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What do all the symbols on the right hand side of the counter mean, I know there is strategic deployment and I think charging is there a full list somewhere ?
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Actually, if I remember correctly from the first time we saw the sprites there was a 5 billion page thread in the old forums regarding the NATO counters versus the sprites and PDX had already gone down a certain path, the addition of the NATO symbols on the divisions as small as they are was a compromise from PDX after so many brought up their either dislike of sprites because they could easily turn them off in HOI3 and or were used to NATO counters in other games. I for one had the Sprites grow on me a bit after downloading the mod for BICE because they looked good however I'm not sold to the point that I wouldn't mind them coming back.
That said I'm at the point of meh "GIVE ME HOI!!!!!!" lol
That said I'm at the point of meh "GIVE ME HOI!!!!!!" lol
Fair point lolNever thought I'd read that related to Daniel
I hope you get what I mean by his play style though, in that he doesn't zoom in to check what type of terrain he is sending his micromanaged unit into, or what type of enemy that unit is up against, it seems to be more a case of 'push harder' your going that way no matter what!
Actually I don't think he even checks what type of unit he is clicking on, so he probably doesn't need NATO counters or sprites.
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Attacking across Danube into hills? Whatevs. Sending 100k men across the Suez? Push, men!
That's solid soviet style micromanagement.
That's solid soviet style micromanagement.
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Yes, the NATO counters are in as far as I'm aware.
Symbols are NOT counters. Yes, NATO symbols are in. No, counters are NOT in.
Edit: People who ask for counters want the option to turn off sprites and use "boxes" with the symbol of the unit. I like NATO symbols, but I would be ok, if it's Pdx symbols on counters. It's about counters, not primarily about symbols. How is it that people do not understand what counters are? Please google the word "counters". They're basically "plastic chips" you move around, instead of little figurines (aka sprites).
That's the whole point. Nobody cares, if it's NATO symbols or not. We can easily mod them in ourselves. It's about NOT being forced to use sprites. Counters are counters. NATO counters are counters with NATO symbols on it. Giving us NATO symbols is nice, but completely misses the point what people are actually asking for. The whole debate was always primarily about counters, not about symbols.
I get that people don't get it. That's probably because they never played a grand strategy title like HOI before. I bet a million bucks that a lot of people will understand why we are asking for counters, when they actually play the game and start to micro a little.
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Despite the fact I don't care for the old counters and like the new models I wouldn't mind if the new counters were a little larger to make viewing easier.
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Absolutely spot on. Really not a fan of sprites in a HOI game.
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In HOI IV to see in what direction a unit\units are moving you need to either zoom in close enough to see the actual model\models animation or select the actual unit\units.
You can really see at a glance whats happening here? Maybe it's because i never got into HOI3 but what i get from this is that the germans are attacking thats it.
I see a stack of counters in the middle with green arrows in every direction and i have no idea which counter is going in what direction.
As compared to the new counters: the old counters do NOT show me the strength% and the ORG% that the new ones DO show me.
The new Counters show a coloured bar indicating under who leads it and to what plan it belongs, the old counters do have the general name on it aswell but I need to read it sideways.
Then there are the added icons inside the counter for what the unit is doing in the new counters, which is not present in the old counters.
From this I would conclude that the new counters give more information at a glance than the old counters ever did.
I do agree that the new counters should/could be made larger to be more readable.
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Agree on this one. This is the one (and only) thing the new counters has going for them. But could this not easily be displayed on a traditional counter too?
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I suppose it would be possible to show it on the traditional counters.
But if we would alter it we still have the, in my eyes, problem of stacks moving in different directions not showing wich counter is moving in what direction.
Something the models already do.
But if we would alter it we still have the, in my eyes, problem of stacks moving in different directions not showing wich counter is moving in what direction.
Something the models already do.
I only played counters in hoi 2 and 3 cause the animations were ugly, but i really like the new system.
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It is great to see that they have added that purple band onto the mini counter to add more information. One of our complaints was that to get that kind of information we would need to zoom in and decipher the sprite's animation to determine what the unit is doing -- push ups for training, marching for movement, shooting for combat, etc. These icons in the purple band will give us a ton of new information at a glance.What do all the symbols on the right hand side of the counter mean, I know there is strategic deployment and I think charging is there a full list somewhere ?
That brings up the big difference between the Hoi3 counter and the HoiIV mini-counter. The counter was a square box icon that was the on map representation of a specific unit. Each unit had its own counter. If more than one unit was in a province, the counters started to stack, and you could tell at a glance how many units were in a province by seeing how high the stack was. In HoiIV, you will not have the option to play with counters. The actual, on map representation of a unit is the sprite, and if more than one unit is in a province they will not stack, but rather if doing nothing, you will see just one sprite. If there are multiple units doing different things, you will see multiple sprites overlapping animations in confusing horribleness.
That is where the mini-counter comes in. Since the sprites do not stack and do not give you an indication of the number units in a province, they added a totally new feature, the mini-counter. It is a new informational tool separate from the counter or the sprite. You could for example imagine the game using both counters and mini-counters instead of sprites and mini-counters. So, the mini-counter is not a replacement for the counter. It is a whole new beast.
It is a new beast, because it does not represent a specific unit, but rather a group of units depending on your level of zoom. While zoomed all the way in, the counter might represent a single unit in a single province. Zoom out a bit and it might merge with other units in neighboring provinces and represent 4 units across 4 provinces. Zoom out further and it might represent 40 units all across your nation.
One of my concerns is how the mini counters will perform when the types of units are dramatically increased by a mod. I am concerned that the interface is designed in such a way that too many units requiring separate mini counters will overload the system. I also don't like the way the mini-counters jump around like Mexican jumping beans at times. I hope they have worked that bug out. I am also now concerned about the new purple informational band. What happens when the mini-counter is representing more than one unit and the units are doing more than one thing? I am sure there is some logical solution that they have worked out that we will soon get used to. It is clear they are putting a great deal of thought into this interface.
All in all, I am very pleased to see that purple band. It means they listened to us and realized that people are going to predominately play the game with the new mini-counter, no matter how hard they try to push the sprites on us.
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From what I recall: The mini counters group together all the similar units of the same type, that are doing the same thing, and belong under the same general/fieldmarshal.
So say that you have 2 different types of infantry divisions and you have 20 of each: one type has 3x3 inf and an engineer (type A) battallion the other is a different template of 3x3 inf with 3 art(type B).
Despite both being infatry divisions the mini counters will only group type A divisions into a counter and group type B divisions under another.
Now you tell one of your Type A divisions to to another province: it gets the move icon in the coloured bar.
When you zoom out you wil now have 3 mini counters: 1 for the moving type A division, 1 for the 19 stationairy Type A divisions and 1 for the 20 Stationairy type B divisions.
And this goes for generals/fieldmarshals too.
Atleast thats how I interpreted it to work according to the DD's, WWW etc.
Hope this clears stuff up for you.
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