will hoi4 have counters like hoi3?
- Thread starter dasVerruckteJoe
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Eh. That is not counters. NATO symbols yes, but not counters like most are used too. Hopefully someone will be able to mod it though, or it will arrive shortly in a DLC.
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I never got this counter-discussion. What is it about them that makes everyone's pants wet? I thought it were the NATO-symbols, but apparently not?
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I think people dislike sprites, I know I do. Would much rather have counters (they could be 3D, thats fine) which then use NATO symbols.
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Counters are something many are used to, from other games, including board games. They work. Why try to invent the wheel when it's already been invented, why try to fix something that is not broken? The new "counters" are in my opinion not an improvement over normal counters.
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If people said this back in the day we would be still driving Ford T modells.
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Some people still do and some models are more valuable than the majority of new production vehicles
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Is someone capable of explaining the real difference from a neutral point of view? In terms of functionality or such? Maybe that would allow me to understand the emotion that comes into it in a second step.
edit: To explain my confusion: in the hoi3 wiki (http://www.hoi3wiki.com/Unit_types), the symbols there named "Counters" are just NATO-symbols. So what else is wanted when people demand "counters"?
edit: To explain my confusion: in the hoi3 wiki (http://www.hoi3wiki.com/Unit_types), the symbols there named "Counters" are just NATO-symbols. So what else is wanted when people demand "counters"?
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Honestly some people find them easier to recognise than the new counters (look at the Cavalary one *shudders*). The NATO symbols are also used in the military nowadays (despite NATO forming in 1949) and adds further immersion into Hearts of Iron IV. You feel like a General playing with NATO counters, whereas the new counter symbols don't really give off that same feeling making the game feel like a game.
Don't get me wrong though, the new symbols are excellent for newcomers of Hearts of Iron IV and casual players who may not recognise NATO symbols. The new symbols are universally recognised by everyone.
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Um, so wait.. If the ability to have NATO symbols isn't "counters", then what are "counters"? This is a bizarre discussion.
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Basically this:
We got the ones on the left. 3D model + new counter.
On the right top are the same (new) counters with NATO Symbols. (also in the game and the models aka. Sprites disappear on higher zoom levels)
And the last one are the HoI3 counters, people want back.
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Once you know your NATO symbols you can actually get more information from them at a glance, than you can from either the new style counters or from the Sprites.
What is the difference between a parachute infantry sprite and a regular infantry from the same country? Or a mountain unit or a military police or garrison, or HQ etc?
How are they distinguished in sprite form? By a different helmet, a rope over the shoulder, a different kind of small arms?
Is it easy at a glance to tell a tank destroyer battalion from a light tank battalion in sprite form?
All these units are immediately identifiable using NATO counters.
You just need to spend a bit of time to learn them.
What is the difference between a parachute infantry sprite and a regular infantry from the same country? Or a mountain unit or a military police or garrison, or HQ etc?
How are they distinguished in sprite form? By a different helmet, a rope over the shoulder, a different kind of small arms?
Is it easy at a glance to tell a tank destroyer battalion from a light tank battalion in sprite form?
All these units are immediately identifiable using NATO counters.
You just need to spend a bit of time to learn them.
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Nostalgia, as far as I understand it. These are often people who played or play board games with square cardboard "chips", and feel that video games that also use these counters is a way to keep that spirit alive.
How it can matter as much to anyone as it apparently does, however, I have never understood.
How it can matter as much to anyone as it apparently does, however, I have never understood.
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@DazKaz
I am sorry, but WHAT? How has anything, you said, to do with this discussion.
You say a counter is better to understand than a sprit. No arguing that. If this would be still HoI 3, I agree with you.
But is it not. There is no only sprite option, like in 3. There will be always a counter under the sprite.
If you would say, you don't like the look of the new counters, because this or that. Fine. That would be at least a point to discuss about. Either you just decided to ignore the new counters or didn't see them.
Anyway your point of 'counters are better to identify' is mute for HoI4, as counters are not gone. They just look different now.
I am sorry, but WHAT? How has anything, you said, to do with this discussion.
You say a counter is better to understand than a sprit. No arguing that. If this would be still HoI 3, I agree with you.
But is it not. There is no only sprite option, like in 3. There will be always a counter under the sprite.
If you would say, you don't like the look of the new counters, because this or that. Fine. That would be at least a point to discuss about. Either you just decided to ignore the new counters or didn't see them.
Anyway your point of 'counters are better to identify' is mute for HoI4, as counters are not gone. They just look different now.
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Who's using the sprites to get any information? They are just window dressing. All the information is on the new counters (unit type, org level, strength level, status icons, etc.).
You've also got a TON of symbols to choose from to make your counters look the way you want, including all the nato symbols.
Counters are already in the game, and they stack WAY butter and show WAY more useful information than the counters in HOI. I don't know what this discussion is about.
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Part of it I think is also the size of the things. I know that looking in the WWW, and in screenshots that I've seen, I have some difficulty seeing what types of units are there, even when he flipped over to the NATO option. With the counters, that's never an issue. I can always see what kind of units I'm selecting easily because the counter itself is big enough to impart that information to me easily.
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Perhaps I can help........
A Counter in HOI III is an actual unit in HOI IV a Counter is a display mechanism for telling you how many and what type of units are in a Province at that particular moment in time.
One major disadvantage with the HOI IV type province display counter is that because it is not an actual unit you cannot use it to show in what direction a unit\units are moving as in HOI III.
In HOI IV to see in what direction a unit\units are moving you need to either zoom in close enough to see the actual model\models animation or select the actual unit\units.
I would suggest that perhaps this was not the best choice considering that the Battle Plan mechanism hands effective control of the movement of your units over to the AI and a clear understanding in what direction the AI is moving your units may be of some importance to the player.
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Try the other way around.
In HOI3, you see a stack of counters, with only the top one visible. You can be looking at four tanks or one tank, two infantry, and a mountain division. You just have no idea unless you hover your mouse over, or select every single stack along the frontline. Like this:
In HOI4, you see the exact composition of every single stack. At a glance.
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Talking about the size and readability, not seeing everything at once,which I can easily do by mousing over the stack. Some of us have some visual issues, and trying to read those tiny icons at the bottom of the huge sprites is problematic to say the least.
If they had the sprite to symbol ratio as scalable, where I could make a smaller sprite and larger symbols at the bottom, would solve the issue, but don't see that happening.
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