Will estates system be applied to Asia?

[happymix91]

From what wiz said and dev diary about horde, Ming and horde(before government reform) will not have estates system. I think that premitives also will not have.

And then, what about other Asian countries like India and East Asia? Same as Europe and Muslim?

 

[Wizzington]

Ming and Primitives are the only countries without Estates right now (also think Aztecs and such should probably have Estates, so might tie it to native council and such).

 

[happymix91]

Ming and Primitives are the only countries without Estates right now (also think Aztecs and such should probably have Estates, so might tie it to native council and such).

Thank you for replying!

No big difference between Europe and Asia? Maybe you keep it for later?

 

[Darkath]

Ming and Primitives are the only countries without Estates right now (also think Aztecs and such should probably have Estates, so might tie it to native council and such).

From the dev diary thread :

Couldn't you transform Ming Factions in special kind of estates giving different bonuses ? The new system seems much more interesting that the old factions

Side question : will the nobility be named samurai in japan ? (and cause many problems when you unite the land forcing you for instance to enact a sword hunt )

 

[Wizzington]

Estates will definitely have local names and local variables. Probably won't have that many completely unique estates on launch though.

 

[ajsieg]

Will Christian denominations get different bonuses for the clergies? So like Fervor and Church Power? What bonuses will Buddhists get (Like the Dalai Lama)?

 

[Wizzington]

Will Christian denominations get different bonuses for the clergies? So like Fervor and Church Power? What bonuses will Buddhists get (Like the Dalai Lama)?

Yes.

 

[ajsieg]

Yes.

Thank You!

 

[happymix91]

Estates will definitely have local names and local variables. Probably won't have that many completely unique estates on launch though.

I know that you can make your game greater day after day.

But at least no territoral control for estates of east Asian countries.. That is too ahistroical, too unrealstic even though realism isn't a major issue..

 

[MiniaAr]

I know that you can make your game greater day after day.

But at least no territoral control for estates of east Asian countries.. That is too ahistroical, too unrealstic even though realism isn't a major issue..

In east Asia the nobility had no control over the provinces they administrated? This seems strange to me.
For example, there was a three (at least) way civil war between two powerful families and the Imperial one in Dai Viet. (Trịnh–Nguyễn War) This seems to fit the description of the nobility estate having too much influence on the provinces.
h

 

[happymix91]

In east Asia the nobility had no control over the provinces they administrated? This seems strange to me.
For example, there was a three (at least) way civil war between two powerful families and the Imperial one in Dai Viet. (Trịnh–Nguyễn War) This seems to fit the description of the nobility estate having too much influence on the provinces.
h

Was it a struggle among estates? If estates system will not be applied to east Asia as a model of power game among nobles based on confucianism(not estates, but noble factions), announced territoral control isn't matched with east Asia.

In Joseon, no estates except nobles had control over whole province. Though Japan had smiliar political system with feudal system of western Europe, it didn't have similar social system with western Europe. And no need to talk about Ming and Qing.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Inca not having estates would be weird, especially given the kinds of things you see in the Inti events.

Mesoamerican estates aren't going to carry them for 80 years of otherwise doing nothing at all but moving a conquistador after 50-60 so hopefully something changes in that regard.

 

[Darkath]

I know that you can make your game greater day after day.

But at least no territoral control for estates of east Asian countries.. That is too ahistroical, too unrealstic even though realism isn't a major issue..

This was actually very much the case in china iirc. were province could be at time supervized by provincial magistrates, military commanders or nobility. Not sure if eunuchs ever held some kind of local power though.

During Ming it was mostly magistrates through imperial examination, although princes had nominal estates (without the power going with it)

 

[happymix91]

This was actually very much the case in china iirc. were province could be at time supervized by provincial magistrates, military commanders or nobility. Not sure if eunuchs ever held some kind of local power though.

During Ming it was mostly magistrates through imperial examination.

I mean, difference among estates of east Asia was much greater than Europe. Social participation and power of common people in Europe were much greater than those of east Asian common people. If estates system will be applied to east Asia with variable nobles, not different estates, I'll be very thankful for Devs.

 

[MarkS00N]

I know that you can make your game greater day after day.

But at least no territoral control for estates of east Asian countries.. That is too ahistroical, too unrealstic even though realism isn't a major issue..

The downfall of Majapahit and the rise of Demak in Java could be explained as the result of friction between Muslim Merchants 'estate' who controls northern coast 'provinces' against Inland Nobility 'estate' who controls the southern part of the island (with diminishing royal influence against the two), so I don't think it is ahistorical or unrealistic...

Battling of influence between Noble and Clergy also continue to happen afterwards (e.g. the reign of Amangkurat I of Mataram and Padri War)...

 

[happymix91]

The downfall of Majapahit and the rise of Demak in Java could be explained as the result of friction between Muslim Merchants 'estate' who controls northern coast 'provinces' against Inland Nobility 'estate' who controls the southern part of the island (with diminishing royal influence against the two), so I don't think it is ahistorical or unrealistic...

Battling of influence between Noble and Clergy also continue to happen afterwards (e.g. the reign of Amangkurat I of Mataram and Padri War)...

I don't know much about India..

 

[MiniaAr]

I don't know much about India..

It's ok since he is talking about Indonesia .

 

[happymix91]

It's ok since he is talking about Indonesia .

Lol I should've said northern east or confucianist, not 'East'

 

[Darkath]

Asia is a large place indeed

 

[MiniaAr]

But, but, Manchus and Mongols had estates that controled territories: Nobility/local Khans, Religious ones (Tibetan buddhists). Sure, probably not a lot of burghers, but they had cities as well. As estates are linked to government type, this third estate won't be able to gain a lot of Influence while the country stays a Horde government.