Will economy and industrial build up be more detailed in HOI IV?

[BOB III jr]

Though Heart of Iron is really an excellent WW2 grand strategy game focused on the army sight, in my games of the successive opus I, II and III, I've always regreted the restricted lack of feasibilities for economic development.

Indeed this point his rather the field of the "Victoria's" games.
But, I think it would be really cool, as pertinent, to be able to conduct stuff like geological survey or oil drilling test.

I am of course thinking of a kinda "what if" scenario: like for Italy in Libya or France in Algeria being able to search and discover oils field from the 1910's/1920's/1930's. Historicaly, geological survey to search for underground resources has started in the 1870's for France in Algeria and the 1910's in Libya for Italy. So what if those have been made with constant determination to find oil (which was regognized since late 19 century and confirmed by WW1 as a strategic resource)? As well as developing appropriate techs for onshore 2000/3000 meters depp drillings (like for the post WW2 bingo oilfield of Hassi Messaoud)?

So I hope that HOI IV will include, at least as a gameplay option, advanced possibilities for economic build up, that is to say a bit of the "Victoria's spirit" in that matter ! Not just industry building costly in ICs, and techs!

 

[cyorir]

Well, there is more of an economy in that supply is no longer as simple as fuel + supplies. You now have several different kinds of supplies you need to produce. For example, there is a distinction between infantry supplies and support supplies. Each military factory produces a different type of supplies. So it is no longer as simple as the slider production of HOI3, although it is not quite as detailed as the Victoria economy. Also, the energy/metal/oil/rare system was slightly expanded to oil/rubber/aluminum/steel/tungsten/chromium.

As far as I know, there is no "drill for oil," or "find new resources" mechanic, because in most cases there would be too little time to develop resources found in surveys started in the late 1930's. However, I suspect it will be possible to mod in resource-generating or resource-changing events similar to Vic2's rubber, oil, and precious metal events.

Some dev diaries which may be relevant:
23: Industrial Buildup
24: Trade
33: Supply

Edit: I guess zmarcos has shown Italy can "Prospect for Oil."

 

[zmarcos]

Italy has the "Prospect for Oil" focus:
http://www.hoi4wiki.com/File:Italy_national_focus_tree.jpeg

 

[Number 7]

the build up is certainly going to be better than say, HOI3 where only a few key nations would take part (regularily) in large scale industrial build up. those main ones being Germany, the USA and the Soviet Union.

in HOI4 every nation will get industrial build up with their civilian factories and military factories. Resource rich nations even get to benefit from the war build up, since you sell resources for civilian factories, and civilian factories can build more civilian factories . Italy's Prospect for OIl national focus posted above will almost certainly help italy with this, as you can be sure Germany is going to want some of that!

so it seems like its a real lovely improvement over hoi3 where building factories was just something you did with a large IC pool to begin with and some nations just happened to start with practicals IIRC (Germany and SOV?)

i think there are also national focuses that aid the industrial build up, both resource development wise (like italy) and with factories

 

[LordOfWar16]

Well, there is more of an economy in that supply is no longer as simple as fuel + supplies. You now have several different kinds of supplies you need to produce. For example, there is a distinction between infantry supplies and support supplies. Each military factory produces a different type of supplies. So it is no longer as simple as the slider production of HOI3, although it is not quite as detailed as the Victoria economy. Also, the energy/metal/oil/rare system was slightly expanded to oil/rubber/aluminum/steel/tungsten/chromium.

As far as I know, there is no "drill for oil," or "find new resources" mechanic, because in most cases there would be too little time to develop resources found in surveys started in the late 1930's. However, I suspect it will be possible to mod in resource-generating or resource-changing events similar to Vic2's rubber, oil, and precious metal events.

Some dev diaries which may be relevant:
23: Industrial Buildup
24: Trade
33: Supply

Edit: I guess zmarcos has shown Italy can "Prospect for Oil."

You can increase your resource output by the excavation technolgies in the industrial tab. Those will improve your mining equipment i.e give an bonus to resource output in states.

 

[BOB III jr]

Thanks for your answer and the 3 interesting links about HOI IV.

Looks to me like a really smart move forward from III to IV, especially on the industrial and resources model.

I am now really attracted by the fourth opus of HOI, so I will keep an eye on it waiting for its release.

While creating my own historical HOI3 mods for colonial Algeria and Libya in a 36/1/1 scenario: a very modest mod for the reason it consist on changing the open source HOI3 data of the provinces concerned by historical data and analysis, but based on possible "what if" analysis. Which will include some realistic techs improvments like the better dvlpt of the needed long range transport planes or improvment of regional industries and infrastructures as well as overall chemistry and industrial techs theories.

And, last but not least, I think that the choise of the six of June for the release of HOI IV is particulary pertinent as it reminds us of what I am very devoted to, what I name in french "l'esprit du 6 Juin 1944", the spirit of WE democratic allies landing on the Normandy beaches to kick the ass off, of this totalitarian shitty regime. The 70 years commemoration of this event on the 6 of June 2014, with notably HM the Queen Elisabeth II, which was as a young girl an actor of this WW2 period, was really great!

 

[Maizel]

Industrial build up will probably be way more satisfying for whatever country you play. Too bad the simplification of oil usage will diminish realism somewhat.

 

[BOB III jr]

@zmarcos

"Italy has the "Prospect for Oil" focus"

Thanks for the info. Well, for me it's really cool and pertinent for the next Hearts of Iron IV.

 

[Denkt]

The game have no focus around civilian economy development, it is all about war.

 

[Vidkjaer]

Well, there is more of an economy in that supply is no longer as simple as fuel + supplies. You now have several different kinds of supplies you need to produce. For example, there is a distinction between infantry supplies and support supplies. Each military factory produces a different type of supplies. So it is no longer as simple as the slider production of HOI3, although it is not quite as detailed as the Victoria economy. Also, the energy/metal/oil/rare system was slightly expanded to oil/rubber/aluminum/steel/tungsten/chromium.

As far as I know, there is no "drill for oil," or "find new resources" mechanic, because in most cases there would be too little time to develop resources found in surveys started in the late 1930's. However, I suspect it will be possible to mod in resource-generating or resource-changing events similar to Vic2's rubber, oil, and precious metal events.

Some dev diaries which may be relevant:
23: Industrial Buildup
24: Trade
33: Supply

Edit: I guess zmarcos has shown Italy can "Prospect for Oil."

You dont produce supplies. You produce equipment.

 

[BOB III jr]

Too bad the simplification of oil usage will diminish realism somewhat

Do you mean that, contrary to HOI 3, they will be no further needs to refine petroleum so as to get gasoline, diesel navy heavy fuel and plane fuel?

That would be disappointing

On the contrary, I hope that as an ally's carpet bombing strategy, it will be possible to specificaly aim the german synthetic gazoline factories (or as playing Germany, be able to aim specificaly the british Home chain radar station and factories, then the fighters factories) ?

 

[Maizel]

Do you mean that, contrary to HOI 3, they will be no further needs to refine petroleum so as to get gasoline, diesel navy heavy fuel and plane fuel?

That would be disappointing

On the contrary, I hope that as an ally's carpet bombing strategy, it will be possible to specificaly aim the german synthetic gazoline factories (or as playing Germany, be able to aim specificaly the british Home chain radar station and factories, then the fighters factories) ?

Yeah that is exactly what I mean. The production and the industry system seems much, much more fun than in HoI3, but the fact that they did away with oil/petrol as a consumable in every way irks me a little bit.

It would take away many strategic objectives. Germany would not need the caucasus so badly, nor the hungarian oil fields. Heck, Japan would never need to initiate the Pacific war, and this historically, fuel starving nation can field, and use thousands upon thousands of tanks, planes and ships, if they manage to build them.

And, to add, lack of resources only gives you a construction penalty, it doesn;t stop it, iirc. So some of resource scarcity seems to be alleviateable by simply spamming more factories.

 

[Hanitora]

And, to add, lack of resources only gives you a construction penalty, it doesn;t stop it, iirc. So some of resource scarcity seems to be alleviateable by simply spamming more factories.

From what I heard the penalty is that you produce at 0% if you have no resources but less severe if you have some.

3 oil 3 steel will produce at 50% when missing oil, but 0% if missing both. I would assume that this is proportional to how much resources are needed. So if you need 99 oil and 1 steel to produce something, it'll produce at 1% if you only have the steel. That's just the assumption though, who knows what the reality is. Either way I don't see why you'd want to produce tanks at say 50% efficiency. That's awful. At that point I'd only produce things that I absolutely need like planes.
Chances are there will be updates and maybe expansions that change this balance drastically in the future. I'd like to see fuel included as consumable "equipment" that you need to make in refineries that would work much like the factories do right now. Then fuel consuming equipment cannot operate for "free". It would be a herculean task to balance properly, but I could see something like that being added down the line. Then again it doesn't necessarily add anything to the gameplay, so maybe not. Maybe it'll be up to mods.

 

[BOB III jr]

but the fact that they did away with oil/petrol as a consumable in every way

If that's the case, then I don't understand? Why, while improving things with cool stuff, cross out the obviously fondamental aspect of petroleum in WW2? No or not enough gasoline, then you just walk or stay home..!

 

[Jamey]

If that's the case, then I don't understand? Why, while improving things with cool stuff, cross out the obviously fondamental aspect of petroleum in WW2? No or not enough gasoline, then you just walk or stay home..!

I kind of feel like there's a thread on this topic. One so big that it is "mega".

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-mega-thread-post-all-discussion-here.891473/

 

[Sun_Killer]

From what I heard the penalty is that you produce at 0% if you have no resources but less severe if you have some.

3 oil 3 steel will produce at 50% when missing oil, but 0% if missing both. I would assume that this is proportional to how much resources are needed. So if you need 99 oil and 1 steel to produce something, it'll produce at 1% if you only have the steel. That's just the assumption though, who knows what the reality is. Either way I don't see why you'd want to produce tanks at say 50% efficiency. That's awful. At that point I'd only produce things that I absolutely need like planes.
Chances are there will be updates and maybe expansions that change this balance drastically in the future. I'd like to see fuel included as consumable "equipment" that you need to make in refineries that would work much like the factories do right now. Then fuel consuming equipment cannot operate for "free". It would be a herculean task to balance properly, but I could see something like that being added down the line. Then again it doesn't necessarily add anything to the gameplay, so maybe not. Maybe it'll be up to mods.

I think this is incorrect, i think if you have no ressources the production efficency won´t rise and the production speed is halfed, if i read the DD correcetly.

Also if you lose the ressources later on, you will lose efficency