Will East iranian culture groups (scythians) be covered in "legacy of persia dlc"?

[qaqq2q2]

The title, alans and the rest of the iranian peoples will be covered in the dlc? Because medieval Iran lacks a bit of interesting stuff (maybe content related to the muslim strugle between Mu'tazili and Ash'arism) the flavors of Iran would have been interesting for a Silkroad dlc as an extra add-on.

Other interesting falvour could be related to nestorianism

Seljuks i dont think should be covered in an iranian flavours, but in flavour for turkic peoples (that covers tukic migration to central asi and anatolia)

 

[grommile]

Seljuks i dont think should be covered in an iranian flavours, but in flavour for turkic peoples (that covers tukic migration to central asi and anatolia)

I'm sorry, but that's really not a sensible position in the context of the 1066 start.

Like, Alp Arslan, Sultan of the Great Seljuk Empire, is ruler of Iran. It would be ludicrous for the DLC about Iran to have no content relating to him.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

The title, alans and the rest of the iranian peoples will be covered in the dlc? Because medieval Iran lacks a bit of interesting stuff (maybe content related to the muslim strugle between Mu'tazili and Ash'arism) the flavors of Iran would have been interesting for a Silkroad dlc as an extra add-on.

Other interesting falvour could be related to nestorianism

Seljuks i dont think should be covered in an iranian flavours, but in flavour for turkic peoples (that covers tukic migration to central asi and anatolia)

View attachment 964772

What year is that map for?

 

[qaqq2q2]

I'm sorry, but that's really not a sensible position in the context of the 1066 start.

Like, Alp Arslan, Sultan of the Great Seljuk Empire, is ruler of Iran. It would be ludicrous for the DLC about Iran to have no content relating to him.

i konw is ruler of iran, but i think it needs its own dlc. since seljuks connect with the first crusade and with the turkic colonization of anatolia, the eventually rise of the ottomans, the sutanate of rum and the start of the collapse of the byzantines.
Separate the seljuks from the rest of the turkic people and states makes no sense.

 

[qaqq2q2]

What year is that map for?

Is a mixed map of 300 BCE and 600BCE. its prupouse is show the historical regions of the scythia and persia. And the linguistic division between east iranians(in orange) and west iranians (in red)

 

[grommile]

i konw is ruler of iran, but i think it needs its own dlc.

Imagine, for a moment, that you are not a person with a deep and focused interest in Turkic culture.

You're just a gamer playing a game, and you've bought a geographically focused flavour DLC.

In one of the two start dates, most of the region covered by that DLC is ruled by a single ruler.

You spin up a game as that ruler.

There is no new content relating to him and his regime.

How would you react?

I know how I would react: I would feel cheated. I would feel that I had been sold half a product.

 

[Scrambles]

i konw is ruler of iran, but i think it needs its own dlc. since seljuks connect with the first crusade and with the turkic colonization of anatolia, the eventually rise of the ottomans, the sutanate of rum and the start of the collapse of the byzantines.
Separate the seljuks from the rest of the turkic people and states makes no sense.

I don’t think he will get his own DLC at least in the short-to-medium term. The road map states exactly what the devs are working on, and the Seljuks aren’t in it.

However the Persian DLC plans to change Clan governments and changes to Crusades/Imperial realms will doubtlessly bring some sort flavor for the Seljuks and Rumans and Ottomans.

 

[Despotism]

Imagine, for a moment, that you are not a person with a deep and focused interest in Turkic culture.

You're just a gamer playing a game, and you've bought a geographically focused flavour DLC.

In one of the two start dates, most of the region covered by that DLC is ruled by a single ruler.

You spin up a game as that ruler.

There is no new content relating to him and his regime.

How would you react?

I know how I would react: I would feel cheated. I would feel that I had been sold half a product.

Except we know most people play in 867, not 1066.
We have already seen this before, Northern Lords adds very little to the game in 1066, Norse Pagans are on the verge of extinction, and the only old Norse culture left is in Iceland. There wasn't a massive uproar of people who loaded up the game in 1066 with Northern Lords and felt cheated, at least not that I know of.

 

[grommile]

Except we know most people play in 867, not 1066.

In fairness, there's a specific reason to favour the 867 start if you're playing in Scandinavia.

Iran doesn't have the same intense specificity going on.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Is a mixed map of 300 BCE and 600BCE. its prupouse is show the historical regions of the scythia and persia. And the linguistic division between east iranians(in orange) and west iranians (in red)

In that case, wouldn't a map showing the situation in a period closer to the actual game time be more useful? A map showing Western Europe in the period 300 to 600 BC would be *utterly* useless for showing anything relevant to 867 or even worse 1066, since most of Europe has been invaded multiple times by that point, and in likelyhood the same will apply to that area.

Using a map from *1200 to 1500 years previous* to the first starting date isn't helpful when discussing who should be represented.

 

[Fierabras]

The Scythians were a thing of the remote past by the time the game starts, whereas the elites of Turkic groupings such as the Qarakhanids and the Seljuks quickly Persianized from the 10th/11th century onwards, becoming a fundamental pillar of the Turco-Persian oecumene that would become a defining feature for the Middle East, Iran and Central Asia for centuries. Persia and much of the Islamic world in the Middle Ages cannot be understood without taking the Turkic element into account, so having a "Legacy of Persia" DLC that eschews overhauling Seljuk Iran and the Islamic East in favor of time-travelling Scythians because of their ethnic background seems a bit silly.

 

[qaqq2q2]

In that case, wouldn't a map showing the situation in a period closer to the actual game time be more useful? A map showing Western Europe in the period 300 to 600 BC would be *utterly* useless for showing anything relevant to 867 or even worse 1066, since most of Europe has been invaded multiple times by that point, and in likelyhood the same will apply to that area.

Using a map from *1200 to 1500 years previous* to the first starting date isn't helpful when discussing who should be represented.

yes, it was just to show the language groups, since maps from ck3 start date dont show well the connection between east iranians and west iranians due to turkic migration and settlement in most of those territories

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

yes, it was just to show the language groups, since maps from ck3 start date dont show well the connection between east iranians and west iranians due to turkic migration and settlement in most of those territories

View attachment 964924

And an unkeyed map is useless as well.

But then there's that the language groups won't necessarily have stayed in place for the 1500 years between your original map and the start date.

 

[Scrambles]

Except we know most people play in 867, not 1066.
We have already seen this before, Northern Lords adds very little to the game in 1066, Norse Pagans are on the verge of extinction, and the only old Norse culture left is in Iceland. There wasn't a massive uproar of people who loaded up the game in 1066 with Northern Lords and felt cheated, at least not that I know of.

In fairness, there's a specific reason to favour the 867 start if you're playing in Scandinavia.

Iran doesn't have the same intense specificity going on.

I spit on the fools who do not bury their Playthru’s, and instead play on the same bookmark over and over again

 

[AHumpierRogue]

Imagine, for a moment, that you are not a person with a deep and focused interest in Turkic culture.

You're just a gamer playing a game, and you've bought a geographically focused flavour DLC.

In one of the two start dates, most of the region covered by that DLC is ruled by a single ruler.

You spin up a game as that ruler.

There is no new content relating to him and his regime.

How would you react?

I know how I would react: I would feel cheated. I would feel that I had been sold half a product.

This is basically my stance on the matter. I was originally unsure and thought the dlc might focus mainly on the 867 start and the actual Iranian rulers of Persia(and its surroundings), until I rechecked the 1066 start and realized that as far as I could tell there is not a single top level Iranian culture liege in the entire start date. There might be an Afghani start somewhere at best(which I assume would be included). So I have to assume, or perhaps just hope, that there will be content for Turkic ruled Iran as well. Though admittedly the mention of Northern Lords being mainly an 867 focused DLC has got me thinking back in the other direction again.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

This is basically my stance on the matter. I was originally unsure and thought the dlc might focus mainly on the 867 start and the actual Iranian rulers of Persia(and its surroundings), until I rechecked the 1066 start and realized that as far as I could tell there is not a single top level Iranian culture liege in the entire start date. There might be an Afghani start somewhere at best(which I assume would be included). So I have to assume, or perhaps just hope, that there will be content for Turkic ruled Iran as well. Though admittedly the mention of Northern Lords being mainly an 867 focused DLC has got me thinking back in the other direction again.

Remember that potentially the "Persian" pack could also apply to anything sharing the same cultural heritage/pillars etc as the "original" Persian cultures in the region, so hybrids have possibilities as well if any are added.

For 1066 we have an independent Persian living dangerously as the Kesranid Amirate, and another as the Vilayah of Kakheti, as well as a few others on the edge of the Seljuks and Byzantines.

You then have a number of dukes and counts (4 dukes and 15 counts under the Seljuk) who are various Iranian cultures who *might* be workable places to restore the generally Iranian spirit back to the area. There's even an Iranian count who holds a Mazdayan province if you wanted to do something really complicated. And an actually Persian duke who has the same possibilities.

There's also room for a Mashriqi/Persian or Oghuz/Persian hybrid if you wanted to go that route.

The Ghaznavids then have a couple of Tajik or Afghan nobles who could also be of use here.

 

[MatthiasAugustus]

Remember that potentially the "Persian" pack could also apply to anything sharing the same cultural heritage/pillars etc as the "original" Persian cultures in the region, so hybrids have possibilities as well if any are added.

For 1066 we have an independent Persian living dangerously as the Kesranid Amirate, and another as the Vilayah of Kakheti, as well as a few others on the edge of the Seljuks and Byzantines.

You then have a number of dukes and counts (4 dukes and 15 counts under the Seljuk) who are various Iranian cultures who *might* be workable places to restore the generally Iranian spirit back to the area. There's even an Iranian count who holds a Mazdayan province if you wanted to do something really complicated. And an actually Persian duke who has the same possibilities.

There's also room for a Mashriqi/Persian or Oghuz/Persian hybrid if you wanted to go that route.

The Ghaznavids then have a couple of Tajik or Afghan nobles who could also be of use here.

This doesn't change the fact that a) the description of the content pack specifically refers to the geopolitical situation in 867 and b) all of the unique content in North Lords basically becomes unavailable in 1066 within 20 years of the game start because that's when the Norse cultures hit the High Medieval era. Even the Norse cultures in 1066 only get the Coastal Warriors tradition with Northern Lords and none of the other DLC traditions. Unless its specifically stated otherwise, I don't think its wrong to assume that most of the content will be focuses on 867 and that the only thing 1066 will get is the new clothes and some of the new traditions because that's exactly the way it worked with Northern Lords and the DLC description specifically mentions the 867 start date.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

This doesn't change the fact that a) the description of the content pack specifically refers to the geopolitical situation in 867 and b) all of the unique content in North Lords basically becomes unavailable in 1066 within 20 years of the game start because that's when the Norse cultures hit the High Medieval era. Even the Norse cultures in 1066 only get the Coastal Warriors tradition with Northern Lords and none of the other DLC traditions. Unless its specifically stated otherwise, I don't think its wrong to assume that most of the content will be focuses on 867 and that the only thing 1066 will get is the new clothes and some of the new traditions because that's exactly the way it worked with Northern Lords and the DLC description specifically mentions the 867 start date.

A fair point that it's likely to *mostly* be focussed to 867 - although remember parts of the Northern Lords related content remains open *if* you've opened it already for the legacies or can gain or keep it by cultural shenanigans.

I was mostly looking at the point that although there might not be many powerful already Iranian top tier starts there are some potentially solid looking Iranian cultured characters in a position to take advantage if the Seljuk becomes weakened or starts to break up. It's not an entirely terrible start, and unlike with Norse there are some of the main cultures still alive in 1066.

 

[MatthiasAugustus]

A fair point that it's likely to *mostly* be focussed to 867 - although remember parts of the Northern Lords related content remains open *if* you've opened it already for the legacies or can gain or keep it by cultural shenanigans.

The Danelaw, North Sea Empire, and Kingdom of Mann all have a pre-High Medieval requirement. I think you can get the dynastic legacies as long as you stay Norse/Norman but I'm not sure. Last time I played 1066 Scandinavia, I don't remember getting any of the unique events from the DLC. Those do seem to be tied to the 867 start date in some way. Astru is obliviously still around but less prevalent. You basically get the unique units, clothes and dynastic legacies in 1066 and not much less, which isn't the worth the price for the DLC, even pre-price hike.

I was mostly looking at the point that although there might not be many powerful already Iranian top tier starts there are some potentially solid looking Iranian cultured characters in a position to take advantage if the Seljuk becomes weakened or starts to break up. It's not an entirely terrible start, and unlike with Norse there are some of the main cultures still alive in 1066.

Kind of but not really. To me, the only really notable Iranian ruler is the Persian ruler of Shirvan. There are also some Kurdish rulers but I think the description points towards a focus on Eastern Iranian cultures and the Kurds are mostly in the west, not east. And, yeah, there are other Iranian rulers in 1066, including 2 Sasanid descendants, but that doesn't mean there will be interesting things for them do with the DLC. We won't know until more is announced but I'm skeptical that 1066 will get any dedicated content or that the content in the DLC will be interesting in a 1066 start.

 

[MatthiasAugustus]

Also, another reason why I'm skeptical the DLC will have significant 1066 content is because the situation in the two start dates is so radically different. I think Northern Lords is actually a useful comparison because, although Scandinavia is ruled by Norse rulers in both dates, the situation has actually drastically changed. You've gone from small, pagan polities based around raiding to larger, Christian polities who've begun the process of centralization and this is reflected in the events from the DLC. I image a lot of the non-mechanical content is going to be based around the Iran contributions to the Islamic Golden Age but those style of events don't really make sense when there are few Iranian rulers and fewer who actually rule over the important cultural centers in the region. All of the important cities in the east that were the important in pre-Seljuks (Samarkand, Merv, and so on) are mostly ruled by the Seljuks or other Turkic rulers in 1066, if I remember correctly. Obviously you have the creation of Turko-Persian culture in the 1066 start date but that's something different from what the DLC seems to be focused on.