Will CK3 run on the new M1 Apple chips?

[Niptium]

What a way to coin a sentence in an objective manner. Portraying Apple has a malign corporate entity is questionnable. After all, the fact they actually developed a platform (Bootcamp) so Mac users could run Windows on their product should convince you the company is not out to quash competing companies.

Apple did not do anything to Epic. Epic did inflict itself the punishment to themselves. They had a viable contract they both benefited from for years. That Epic suddenly believes the 30% cut Apple was taking is too much is one thing. It's fine, it's debatable.

That they believed they could just breach that contrat, do themselves «justice» (they, after all, had already canned a 1984 ad parody beforehand) and Apple should just fall in line, cave in under pressure is stupid. You don't just breach a contract without suffering consequences.

There's also the huge factor that Apple treats anything non-Apple as a hostile threat. Look at what happened with Epic. Look at their past with nVidia (which will be weird now since nVidia bought ARM).

 

[Gambles]

What a way to coin a sentence in an objective manner. Portraying Apple has a malign corporate entity is questionnable. After all, the fact they actually developed a platform (Bootcamp) so Mac users could run Windows on their product should convince you the company is not out to quash competing companies.

Apple did not do anything to Epic. Epic did inflict itself the punishment to themselves. They had a viable contract they both benefited from for years. That Epic suddenly believes the 30% cut Apple was taking is too much is one thing. It's fine, it's debatable.

That they believed they could just breach that contrat, do themselves «justice» (they, after all, had already canned a 1984 ad parody beforehand) and Apple should just fall in line, cave in under pressure is stupid. You don't just breach a contract without suffering consequences.

I dunno, I think most companies and most tech channels I've seen have pretty much been on Epic's side on this. That's not saying Epic isn't a big money grubbing company, but dismissing something just cause both entities are shitty isn't the right way to go about it.

The case shares a lot of similarities with the Microsoft monopoly suit from the 90's. In fact as many have pointed out Apple is even a lot more monopolistic with not only bundling their store with phones but forcing users to use their app store and only their app store, unlike say.. Google, which allows alternate app stores even if there's hoops to jump through.

That and the fact that defending apple's shitty business practices is a ship that has long sailed among general users. If you want to see the extent that apple goes to screw over it's own user base just check out Louis Rossmann on youtube. When you have a guy whose whole living is based around repairing Apple products telling you to not buy Apple and he'd much rather be out of a job than see so many people get screwed out of their money... well you know something is not right.

Regardless though I'm not sure what Apple being generally accepted as not very consumer friendly has to do with their new chips. Other than maybe don't be an early adopter, of anything.. really..

 

[durbal]

I can't imagine the mental gymnastics someone would have to do to think Apple is in any way right, let alone righteous.

 

[JtW]

I can't imagine the mental gymnastics someone would have to do to think Apple is in any way righteous, let alone right.

I can't imagine the mental gymnastics someone would have to do to think one of the most successful companies in the world is wrong in everything. ‍

EDIT: oh, I think I misunderstood the context... You only meant as related to the fight with Epic, right? In that case, they're definitely not righteous but Epic did breach the contract by unilaterally adding their own payment options to Fortnite. Or would you say somebody opening their own store in the middle of a Walmart and not paying Walmart for that would be a fair thing to do? (I agree with Epic that Apple is being greedy with their store policies but this is not the way to solve it.)

 

[grommile]

I can't imagine the mental gymnastics someone would have to do to think one of the most successful companies in the world is wrong in everything. ‍

When it comes to their handheld computing devices with integral cellular modems, Apple's level of control freakery regarding what they will let you, the purchaser, do with a device you paid hundreds (or even over a thousand) dollars to obtain is pretty bad.

 

[Torredebelem]

I can't imagine the mental gymnastics someone would have to do to think Apple is in any way righteous, let alone right.

Apple is for those that have the money to spend 4 times more for a machine that actually does the same as a PC (minus games!) and that fall prey to its brilliant marketing and propaganda policies.
As my girlfriend says, it is kind of a cult, with priests dressed in black, spreading the latest marketing gimmicks and believers who go to unimaginable lengths defending their "God"...

 

[JtW]

Ok, we reached that inevitable moment of every Mac-related thread.... Sigh...

 

[pevergreen]

Let's keep this on the topic of CK3 and it running on new Apple hardware.

 

[pevergreen]

My personal opinion:

Not sure if they will invest the support going forward. A few years ago I would have said no (when the Mac versions were done by a different studio) but nowadays... I guess I expect them to do the sensible thing: evaluate how much effort it would be going forward vs expected revenue from the pure Mac base and decide off that.

 

[Torredebelem]

Based on the data posted in the graphic here, I don't believe there is enough of a market for Paradox to spend the needed resources on a port to the Apple ecosystem.

 

[pevergreen]

Based on the data posted in the graphic here, I don't believe there is enough of a market for Paradox to spend the needed resources on a port to the Apple ecosystem.

Where are you seeing Mac data in that graph? The only mention of Apple is relating to the iPhone launching mobile gaming.

That would lead me to believe that Mac game sales are lumped into "PC" revenue.

The only real metric that can be used here is telemetry data from CK3 which Paradox has.

 

[JtW]

The thing is... Paradox use a single engine to develop all of their games. So proper support for the Mac means only one component across their current and future games. This might make sense to them. I suspect older games using older versions of the Clausewitz engine will be dropped but I still hold out (faint) hope they will decide to keep a Mac-friendly version of the current Clausewitz+Jomini engine so at least CK3, Imperator, and whatever comes next, can run properly.

And if they did develop an ARM version of their engine, they could easily expand to the iPad (which accounts for about 60% of tablet sales and is the platform where Apple has the largest market share...)

 

[Torredebelem]

Where are you seeing Mac data in that graph? The only mention of Apple is relating to the iPhone launching mobile gaming.

That would lead me to believe that Mac game sales are lumped into "PC" revenue.

The only real metric that can be used here is telemetry data from CK3 which Paradox has.

That is a valid interpretation of yours, even if not mine. After all, a PC is a PC, a Mac is a Mac. The only evidence I have is admitedly anedoctal from my own business of taking care of 192 computers. Of those, 17 are Macs and contrary to the PCs where many games are installed, no Mac has a single game installed. I stress its a very small sample but given the non interest Paradox shows for the Apple ecosystem, one can take some conclusions, too.

Edit: If you check here you'll see Macs represented in the 3rd quarter of 2019 7.6% of the PC market. Of those how many users are interested in games? And how many users are interested in strategy games in general? And how many are interested in complex Paradox games in particular?

 

[JtW]

That is a valid interpretation of yours, even if not mine. After all, a PC is a PC, a Mac is a Mac. The only evidence I have is admitedly anedoctal from my own business of taking care of 192 computers. Of those, 17 are Macs and contrary to the PCs where many games are installed, no Mac has a single game installed. I stress its a very small sample but given the non interest Paradox shows for the Apple ecosystem, one can take some conclusions, too.

My anecdotal evidence is different. I work for a large company where you have a choice: a Mac or a Thinkpad. I'd say about 80% of laptops chosen are Macs. And since the company doesn't restrict private use, a lot of people have games installed on their Macs.

Edit: If you check here you'll see Macs represented in the 3rd quarter of 2019 7.6% of the PC market. Of those how many users are interested in games? And how many users are interested in strategy games in general? And how many are interested in complex Paradox games in particular?

This is the larger issue. Apple generally fights for the top 20th percentile of the market. Again... from my anecdotal evidence, it's not that Mac users aren't interested in games... It's that they are usually people with disposable income who can afford a console or an additional gaming PC - so they do. They would prefer to be able to play on their Macs but given the sore state of gaming, they will buy a second machine if they have to... Many people also use Bootcamp to boot into Windows to game - so they would show up as "Windows" users on Steam.

All of this isn't because we wouldn't prefer to game on our Macs - it's because the gaming industry won't give us a chance. It's a chicken and egg problem.

 

[grommile]

it's because the gaming industry won't give us a chance.

Feral Interactive are quite happy to (their entire business model is porting Windows titles to Mac, Linux, etc.), but of course their bandwidth is limited.

 

[Drmcdevitt]

Someone mentioning the price is dead wrong. You ain’t gonna find a laptop that has the power of the MacBook Air M1 in its quality build for a comparable price. Hell if I could somehow guarantee I could run MP on EU4 I’d probably trade in my Razer blade stealth which was more than the air.
Getting crossover to run it seems a pain though and the Mac version of the game sorry to say is just crap. You can’t get out of full screen, doesn’t run in borderless window correctly, textures seem worse and from what I’ve read it’s about 20% slower than the 11th gen intel razer at speed 5 and that’s at 900p while I’m running 2160p. But to be fair the stealth is almost twice the price and has a fan and uses a ton more power.

Screw it. Since nobody is bothering to test these things I’m gonna go get the base MacBook Air and test it out And even in multiplayer. Ill report back what I find. Sadly I do not own CK3 and wont be buying it. I have stellaris, hoi4 and eu4 I can check all three.

 

[Drmcdevitt]

Update. So Crossover installs after installing the 11.1 beta. EU4 will install but the paradox launcher will not. You can run the game via the exe. But it crashes. As for native Mac version the guy who reported his findings was way off I’d say its about 50% slower than my Razer blade stealth at speed 5. It runs faster than the 2020 5k iMac so that is something. Maybe the guy running it on the MacBook Pro saw some slightly better performance but I’m just sticking with windows. Doesn’t seem worth the hassle.

 

[Gambles]

Update. So Crossover installs after installing the 11.1 beta. EU4 will install but the paradox launcher will not. You can run the game via the exe. But it crashes. As for native Mac version the guy who reported his findings was way off I’d say its about 50% slower than my Razer blade stealth at speed 5. It runs faster than the 2020 5k iMac so that is something. Maybe the guy running it on the MacBook Pro saw some slightly better performance but I’m just sticking with windows. Doesn’t seem worth the hassle.

That's helpful of you, thanks for that!

 

[Drmcdevitt]

That's helpful of you, thanks for that!

Thanks. Wish I could report more but since the launcher wasn’t working in crossover I decided not to try other games. I would imagine CK3 runs decent in Mac OS version. I just give up on the whole notion. Would have been nice to return razer as it’s twice the price but oh well.

 

[JtW]

@Drmcdevitt , that sounds fair. The Razer was double the price and double the speed, right?