Will 2.6.3 fix the AI starbase upgrade issue? (2.7.2 update)

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Jman5

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The AI is trying really hard and doing an admirable job in terms of their economy and building up their starbase/navy strength up to the capacity. However, around 2240s when they all start getting their level 2 starbase the problems start. They are extremely reluctant when it comes to upgrading them beyond level 1.

You can have all the improvements you want, but if the AI can't keep up militarily, it's not going to be able to present a challenge to the player. Right now the only thing even keeping them close to competitive are the techs that increase fleet capacity and starbase count.

kBJz1UC.png


Edit: nope :(

Edit 2: Update with what is going on here

Edit 3: Looks like 2.7.2 fixed it!! :D
 
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KingAlamar

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Good point. I noticed the AI [Admiral no scaling difficulty] lagging behind my starbase level but I never noticed that it was as bad as what you're showing.
 

Jman5

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Here is what happened when I physically went in and upgraded their starbases for them. I'm still in the process of finishing some of the empires, but their fleet powers drastically changed in just a few short years. I didn't give them any alloy or other resources. Strictly upgraded the starbases and filled in missing slots with anchorages. Had I done this over the course of the game they likely would not have sold off tens of thousands of alloy to the market and would have much bigger fleets.

GFQj6w3.png


The other problem this is causing is that they aren't upgrading their ship building stations either which means they can't get titans, colossus and juggernauts.
 

pmchem

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seems like a nearly game-breaking bug, have you posted it in the bug forum with all the info they request there? no mods, right?
 

Jman5

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seems like a nearly game-breaking bug, have you posted it in the bug forum with all the info they request there? no mods, right?
Yup, I officially reported it two weeks ago. I'm really crossing my fingers that they get this problem fixed because like you said it's game-breaking.

With 2.6 the AI is actually quite good in a lot of ways, so I'm really looking forward to seeing what it can do when it isn't so fleet capped. What I'm really hoping to see is all those hard-teching strategies, that are popular these days, pressured a little more in the early/mid game.
 
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NEXUS12

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This is happening in all my games too. Makes the AI a pushover after the midgame.
 

SeekingEtermity

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There's also the thing where the AI's home system starbase? Always just the single shipyard and the single trade hub. They seem to be, like "well, they gave it to me like this, it would be so rude to modify it..."

It barely matters what they do with it - downgrade it, upgrade it, turn it into a trade hub so their trade value flows straight to the capital, turn it into an anchorage, whatever - but they don't do jack, just leave it near-useless and totally unoptimized, plus, just, level 1. Forever. Even when they actually bother to upgrade the other ones.

This has been going on since well before 2.6. I can't remember ever conquering an AI's home system and having something that isn't the starting starbase configuration in any unmodded game.
 

pmchem

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There's also the thing where the AI's home system starbase? Always just the single shipyard and the single trade hub. They seem to be, like "well, they gave it to me like this, it would be so rude to modify it..."

It barely matters what they do with it - downgrade it, upgrade it, turn it into a trade hub so their trade value flows straight to the capital, turn it into an anchorage, whatever - but they don't do jack, just leave it near-useless and totally unoptimized, plus, just, level 1. Forever. Even when they actually bother to upgrade the other ones.

This has been going on since well before 2.6. I can't remember ever conquering an AI's home system and having something that isn't the starting starbase configuration in any unmodded game.

ok, I laughed. man this seems like one of the most basic problems that needs to be fixed and could be fixed quickly in the game
 

Jman5

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Yeah it seems like once something is put down, the AI doesn't know how to replace it. Another good example of this is how it seems to default to putting down Crew Quarters into starbases when they don't have a specific function yet. This leads it to building Crew Quarters almost everywhere. Then once they're down the AI is stuck with them FOREVER.

Speaking of strange AI behavior, the other annoying thing I have noticed is that the AI seems incapable of queuing up buildings. Everything has to be done one at a time. I can't help but feel like this leads to pointless worsening of performance. It makes some sense in the early game when cash it tight, but there comes a point where they really ought to just be a little wasteful for performance sake. Unfortunately, you probably can't fix this issue without fixing the first issue I mentioned.
 

NEXUS12

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What confuses me, is how an issue this major can be missed in testing?

Every game I've played since returning last week shows this glaring and obvious problem from the mid-game onwards, to the point where I don't see the point in continuing a stupidly easy campaign.

I understand how certain bugs fall under the radar, but how does every AI starbase not being developed get past developers if they test any game past 2050?
 
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UltimateTobi

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What confuses me, is how an issue this major can be missed in testing?

Every game I've played since returning last week shows this glaring and obvious problem from the mid-game onwards, to the point where I don't see the point in continuing a stupidly easy campaign.

I understand how certain bugs fall under the radar, but how does every AI starbase not being developed get past developers if they test any game past 2050?
And that the majority of planets drown in low Stability due to a lack of Amenities.
The economy is OK, even on Ensign. But there needs to be more focus on Amenities. We're not talking -5 or something but regularly -10 and below.
 

Jman5

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What confuses me, is how an issue this major can be missed in testing?

Every game I've played since returning last week shows this glaring and obvious problem from the mid-game onwards, to the point where I don't see the point in continuing a stupidly easy campaign.

I understand how certain bugs fall under the radar, but how does every AI starbase not being developed get past developers if they test any game past 2050?

Part of the problem is that there are several ways the AI can compensate to keep Naval capacity slowly growing which masks the problem. They'll grab those two repeatable techs that increase Naval capacity and number of starbases. Expanding and growing pops will also boost your starbase count over time. They'll eventually pick up supremacy tradition and very often grab Galactic Force Projection Ascension Perk. Now there is also Galactic Community resolutions that can boost fleet cap. And of course every time it upgrades to better ship tech that fleet power number goes up.

To make sure I wasn't imagining things, I observed a game for the first 100 years and marked down fleet power every 5 years of all the AI. Here is an Advanced Start AI on Commodore Difficulty.

TkRWH4j.png


You can see it's fleetpower does improve over time so it gives the illusion that things are working okay, but the reality is that it's fleet power should be waaaay higher.

The weird thing I've noticed is that there is always one or two AI who have no problem upgrading their starbases as soon as possible. I have no clue why they can do it, but everyone else struggles.
 
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NEXUS12

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The weird thing I've noticed is that there is always one or two AI who have no problem upgrading their starbases as soon as possible. I have no clue why they can do it, but everyone else struggles.

This is absolutely the case. In my last game there was two AI empires with endgame starbases and killer fleets, and the rest didn't improve.
 

pmchem

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Part of the problem is that there are several ways the AI can compensate to keep Naval capacity slowly growing which masks the problem. They'll grab those two repeatable techs that increase Naval capacity and number of starbases. Expanding and growing pops will also boost your starbase count over time. They'll eventually pick up supremacy tradition and very often grab Galactic Force Projection Ascension Perk. Now there is also Galactic Community resolutions that can boost fleet cap. And of course every time it upgrades to better ship tech that fleet power number goes up.

To make sure I wasn't imagining things, I observed a game for the first 100 years and marked down fleet power every 5 years of all the AI. Here is an Advanced Start AI on Commodore Difficulty.

TkRWH4j.png


You can see it's fleetpower does improve over time so it gives the illusion that things are working okay, but the reality is that it's fleet power should be waaaay higher.

The weird thing I've noticed is that there is always one or two AI who have no problem upgrading their starbases as soon as possible. I have no clue why they can do it, but everyone else struggles.


That's a great observation, and it underscores the importance of fixing this BUG.

If the BUG in starbase upgrades is fixed, then the AI will be able to efficiently use starbases to help build naval power, instead of relying on repeatable techs and perks. Those techs and perks are better used for other things!