Wilhelm II - is he in HOI IV?

[J_Master]

Maar wij noemen hem gewoon Willie hoor.

But to be serious, I never heard of that coup plan (or at least the reinstatement of Wilhelm II). The route to go this way would be an interesting one, for sure

 

[Ctanr]

2 words:

"Herero" and "Nama"

*Drops the Mic*

 

[AMANONLY]

Monarchs were quite crazy. They were all cousins in WWI (the King,the Kaiser and the Czar) and they started the bloodbath of WWI. Brutality of WWI created a lot of WWII brutality.

Yeah I really find that fascinating that many knew each other rather well, but the brutality of the WW2 seems worse to me compared to WW1. What with WW1 seen as the last gentlemanly war (though poison gas definitely isn't gentlemanly) with the 1st Christmas Truce and with how enemy pilots were treated but I suppose that is in only certain circumstances. So no I don't put the 2nd Reich at the same craziness level as the 3rd.

 

[MrLevenstein]

There was an event in hearts of iron 3 about the Kaiser , but that was when he died . It would be cool to see him back as head of state tough .

 

[Sergey Shoigu]

If they don't (hopefully they will) I will learn how to mod games just so I can make it so!

 

[Miinda]

Monarchs were quite crazy. They were all cousins in WWI (the King,the Kaiser and the Czar) and they started the bloodbath of WWI. Brutality of WWI created a lot of WWII brutality.

Without delving too deep into it... It wasn't entirely up to the monarchs and the monarchs only to start or prevent European wars. A -lot- of power was in the hands of the military and various lobbyist groups. They weren't states built solely around the monarch, like the absolute monarchies a hundred years past or so.

I do strongly recommend "The great war", a fantastic youtube channel.
Here is their Prelude to war videos.

 

[Pandoricus]

I agree it is a great channel and also recommend it

 

[Mannstien]

Poor bastard died

 

[Dr. Frog]

Except for the whole... Uh... Solution thing.

I meant as a form of government, but included 'arguably' and 'almost' as a disclaimer there, I believe.
Anyway, not a political thread, and I'd definitely love to see the Kaiser as a possible ahistorical route in-game.

 

[barny]

I sense some rose-tinted lenses; the German Empire (2nd Reich) was arguably almost as much of a despotic dictatorship as the Third Reich.
...Not that I disagree; I would love the option, and know many others would as well.

Uhm...not it wasn't. It was a constitutional monarchy with strong political parties, with freedom and right for its citizens. Yes, compared to a modern democratic state it was lackluster (and so was ANY other country of the time), but in no way was it anywhere near a despotic dictatorship like Hitlers Reich. The Emperor couldn't randomly sentence people to death or put considerable parts of the population into camps or just outlaw ALL parties. There were elections and working parliaments.

 

[TheDerpyBeagle]

True, but during the course of WWI, when the Kaiser made his cabinet up increasingly of German generals and officers, the Second Reich was very much toeing the line between being a Monarchy and a Military Dictatorship. The Oberste Heeresleitung had lots of power that only grew as the war dragged on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberste_Heeresleitung#Third_OHL

 

[barny]

But that was at the end of the Empire under the pressure of the war and even then it was nothing compared to the Third Reich.

 

[awdioh]

But that was at the end of the Empire under the pressure of the war and even then it was nothing compared to the Third Reich.

Exactly. The second Reich somewhat changed in times; you have to see that is was a succession of the Restoration-era reactionary movements, there was no successful revolution and therefore it slowly evolved. Under Bismarck there was little freedom since he was hardliner conservative, but the Reichstag increasingly got more power and had universal suffrage, but the government was solely responsible to the Kaiser. The second Reich from 1890-1914 would best be described als semi-democratic and militaristic (people really loved the military and the Kaiser, i can tell you that).

For massacres... yes, in the second Reich there was the massacre agaisnt Herero and Nama, but it's not like that would be outrageous by the contemporary society since Darwinism was accepted in the whole western world. And there have been numerous other incidents like this, for example the Atrocities in Belgian Congo which included the murder of up to 10 million people. But I think we can all agree that nothing compares to the genocide and systematic murder commited by the Nazis against Jews, Gypsies, Disabled...

 

[Dr. Frog]

Uhm...not it wasn't.

There's a reason there was a political revolution following up The Great War. It wasn't forced in the Treaty of Versailles or anything, the people were extraordinarily incontent; I think that's a sign that the people were upset at both the long war and the government that had led during it.

Of course the Second Reich wasn't as 'bad' as the Third in many respects, but it was still not truly democratic nor in any way perfect, and I think my point stands.

 

[Lennart Stek]

Would love this, could pretend Wilhelm got dementia and still attack Poland!

 

[Ted52]

Guys, get back on track here. Its about old Wilhelm here.

If you keep on going off about politics, Had a Dad will surely have a great time shutting down the thread.

 

[awdioh]

Would love this, could pretend Wilhelm got dementia and still attack Poland!

Actually, it is likely that WWII would have happened no matter whether the Nazis were in Power in Germany. The people of Germany always wanted to get back the lost territories after the treaty of Versailles (of which french WWI Marshal said it was nothing but a ceasefire for 20 years) so war was basically inevitable, the Japanese likely still would've started their wars, and it is very likely Stalin would have attacked Germany sooner or later.

 

[TheDerpyBeagle]

Actually, it is likely that WWII would have happened no matter whether the Nazis were in Power in Germany. The people of Germany always wanted to get back the lost territories after the treaty of Versailles (of which french WWI Marshal said it was nothing but a ceasefire for 20 years) so war was basically inevitable, the Japanese likely still would've started their wars, and it is very likely Stalin would have attacked Germany sooner or later.

Yes, but the important questions is whether or not a Monarchist Germany would be as ambitious as Hitler, or if they would just aim to re-conquer territories lost in the Great War. If Germany offered to pull out of Poland and the Western countries minus pre-ww1 German territories, then I think Britain may have accepted that peace in 1940.

 

[Super-Soviet]

Why would he be? They removed wholesale any ideological category capable of representing him or any form of German politics outside of Republican Democracy, Nazism and Stalinist Communism. You have the NSDAP, the SPD and the KPD - that is it. Neutral political parties doesn't exist for countries that start off with one of the three major ideologies, too.

 

[Sharp163]

I remember reading something about this once. Iirc, the only Nazi who bothered to visit Wilhelm was Goering, and Wilhelm was incredibly rude to him and described Goering as a "stupid fat pig". He said he would only ever return to Germany once the monarchy was restored, so he could take his rightful place on the throne.

Needless to say, he was a teeny bit senile at that point.