Wildweststyle Migration/colonization a good idea for Stellaris ?

[SamuraiLordofWii]

When i first hear about Migration at the Dev's i didnt paid a lot attention to it, but when i read about the history of South Africa and the Wild west i saw a intresting idea for stellaris in this kind of senario also with the idea of firefly in mind. The part of South African history which made me think this would be great in a 4x game is the Great Track where a lot of the old dutsch settlers at the cap colonie decide to move more inland in a mostly unknown region because they dislike the new british rule over them to be able to life like the want to life. A bit similar is the story with the Wild West when the People in the us start move west based of many reasons and oftn on there free will. So i chose WIld west for the thread name since i think its more comon knowlege then the great track.

This idea should work great with the system of Pops and Etnics since you could counquner (if you dont purge them which seem the famous option in this foums) different Pobs with different ethos and etnics or your own Pobs drift away from your own. So the dev's said they would revolt eventualy because of this and fight for there indipence but i think that should not be the only option. So far i understand migration work only between your own worlds and with other empires if you have a deal for this. In the context with the Great track i think of a 3rd way of Migration which is mixed with Coloniaziton, which is that the unhappy Pop which a opposide ethos move out in the unknown space and look for a new place to life. This should be especial the chase when the ruler of this system is so powerfull that all kind of revoultion would be crashed anway. So instead of getting slaughter in a useless uprisingt they just could decide to leave the empire and be happy somewhere else and on there own. This also could happen after a faild revolution that the beaten Pops decide the flew. The other option is overpopulation mean all cards of a planet are populated but there is a lot food incoming so that the population still could grow ( no idea if that is a chase now in Stellaris) this would creat also a Pop wich would move out of the empire to find a world which isnt so overpopulated.

Beside that this kind of Pobs should get a Pionier traid which give them a higher habitation for any kind of planet so they could colonize more freely. Which is kinda like here on earth where people expand in regions which didnt look so nice for living like siberia.
I think this would add a nice dymanic too the game and work well with the exploration idea and give the game a new feeling if a old enemy come back because some of his Pops found in a far region a new empire and now come back for revenge or finding some of your old Pops sitting on some planets and fall back in the tech , no idea if that is possible to degenrate in a techlvl would be kinda usfull for this idea so not every Pop which leave the Empire would build a new empire (and block out your own) but sit on planet alone and can be reinvited in the empire easy if the empire reach this planet. There are a lot options if they aculty could fall back ina other low tech like spiritual and isolationist Pops be maybe happy with a primitiv life style to be closer on there beliving.

I think there are way more options for it but i would like to know what you think about it in the forums and sorry if i missuse ethic and ethos maybe.

 

[Beric]

Interesting thoughts! I think migration is a really cool mechanic so I was a bit disappointed when Wiz said it wasn’t a primary focus.

I’d really like to see migration regardless of whether it’s allowed by official policy. Sure, if free migration is permitted unhappy pops might travel to a more attractive planet. But what if it isn’t permitted? Perhaps the pops might try to escape and become refugees, immigrating to empires they think might be more friendly. For example, individualist pops in collectivist empires might escape to an individualist empire (and perhaps a xenophile one in particular).

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

This is an interesting idea.

In terms of the Great Trek, remember that what caused it wasn't just the British rule. Sure, that's what my own ancestors said about us migrating north, but it's largely a myth that comes from the belief that black people did not influence white people's development. The more important factor was that the Zulu ascendancy and the Sotho-Tswana collapse had let to banditry, the breakdown of order, and a power vaccuum in the central plateau of South Africa which meant that there was no organised resistance to large-scale Afrikaans migration. (Anyone who's played Crusader Kings 2 knows what it feels like when a spiral of instability and factionalism leaves you unable to resist invasion.)

Seeing this happen in Stellaris would be awesome.

 

[dezuman]

If this was possible it could lead to really interesting stuff, like a fanatic individualistic nomadic race spreading out creating a bunch of separate nations that might or might not unite to resist the empires of other races.

 

[Exemplar Voss]

Interesting thoughts! I think migration is a really cool mechanic so I was a bit disappointed when Wiz said it wasn’t a primary focus.

I’d really like to see migration regardless of whether it’s allowed by official policy. Sure, if free migration is permitted unhappy pops might travel to a more attractive planet. But what if it isn’t permitted? Perhaps the pops might try to escape and become refugees, immigrating to empires they think might be more friendly. For example, individualist pops in collectivist empires might escape to an individualist empire (and perhaps a xenophile one in particular).

Here's the thing though... that is actually a benefit to the empire they're leaving. It means those worlds have a lower warscore cost to conquer. Hence it becomes a metagame exploit to make people unhappy enough to leave and help you conquer the galaxy.

 

[Oscot]

Here's the thing though... that is actually a benefit to the empire they're leaving. It means those worlds have a lower warscore cost to conquer. Hence it becomes a metagame exploit to make people unhappy enough to leave and help you conquer the galaxy.

Ah yes, the Leto II school of galactic hegemony.

Don't be shit-talking the Golden Path, m80

 

[KonradKurze202]

Here's the thing though... that is actually a benefit to the empire they're leaving. It means those worlds have a lower warscore cost to conquer. Hence it becomes a metagame exploit to make people unhappy enough to leave and help you conquer the galaxy.

I think that only applies to your primary race. If you conquer a xenos world and they flee your empire I don't think that gives you better War Goals. It does reduce unhappiness and promote stability, so encouraging xenos to leave your empire can be good for you, but I don't think it gives undue benefits.
It will also almost always be harder to get your own pops to leave your empire (through migration) than xenos pops. And if you are so evil that you encourage all your pops to leave you might end up with a resource shortage. It seems fairly balanced to me.

 

[PG908]

Not to mention how unhappy pops are liable to do pesky things like revolt or be unproductive. Especially if the neighbors aren't too friendly. Or maybe the neighbors could use a species happy in your biome or with your traits. It all depends.

But honestly, it doesn't seem worth it to risk your stability for cheaper war goals—its detrimental to your war performance.

 

[GarnXCII]

i like this. i would love to see a dlc cover the effects of intergalactic warfare and ill-ruled empires on the individual, with more depth. refugees, resistance movements taking up arms on a planetary level (as opposed to rebels pumping out battleships and establishing their own little empire), and of course the brave frontiersmen that you write about.

don't worry, your use of ethics is correct, and the way forward for this game and us all.

 

[Brownbeard]

Spam worlds with robot colonizers and open colonization to any alien race you meet.

 

[Vasious]

I'd like to see unhappy non state Ethic pops settling worlds on their own.

Not sure on how the game mechanics would work, but if there was a sufficiently large faction, depending on the Ethos they could, rather than trying to over throw of get independence on an existing world, they settle a new one and migrate there.

So if you have a lot of a specific non state ethic pops but they do not hold a majority anywhere to justify them claiming independence and they of an Ethos that wouldn't try to overthrown the local government, they start to migrate to unsettled "frontier worlds", leading to a serious of events and decisions on what to do with them, from ignoring them until they reach a point they do become an independent faction, trying to exert control enough to allow them, to become a vassal state, or direct interventions leading to the possibility of integration of the now more unhappy pops, or armed conflict.

 

[Brownbeard]

How many habitable worlds are there in average in a maximum size galaxy?

 

[SamuraiLordofWii]

Thank you guys for your nice Ideas. I like the ideas of refugees they should appear when the Pop get supressed from ther ruler and not when the ruler dont care i mean people normaly move if they cant life like they want and flew to be who they want to be. Maybe it can be with a extra law like with migration like accept refugrees /accept only same ethos/closed borders it should work with the actuall mechanics if you can add this one with a mod. But also should the Pops moded to give them the ability to move if they suppresed. But then it need different lvls of suppresing so your Pops wont run away if you just simple use it like in actual Stellaris so far i saw it from the livestream.

Do anyone know if you can mod the Mechnaics for this or is it hard coded? Also for the pionier coloniazation is it possible to colonize a planet with out scan it with a sience ship ? because it would be a problem for the idea if you want the Pops to go in the unknwon space but cant get on a planet because they cant scan it since it would be a weird if they go out with a sience ship and all. They should be able to random colonize a planet i think.

Yeah the free space with out a organised reistiance work perfct with the wide space where a lot of habitable worlds are waitig for you. Maybe they will open that option as DLC or if it is possible some one make a mod for it if something of it isnt hardcoded. Actully i think there should be also a option to motivate Pops to move to a new colonized Planet since its a bit werid that all Pops on the new only grow from reproduction sure thats a comon system in 4x games but it would be realistic if people start migrant there if the colonie is foundet or maybe its allready well handelt with the resettle and migration system we have in stellaris

The other thing i wonder about is if some one can fall back in tech i mean if this Pops Pionier the unknown space they sometimes lost contact too the home Empire and also to all technological benefits so if some of there equipment broke they maybe coundten fix it or replace it so they would fall back in there tech and it would based of there ethos be a problem or they would even accept it i saw this in some Scifi books. So you could find faild colonizations or the one which fall back in a subtech lvl also like a system with many indipendet Planets in it. Also sould it be possible to build small colonize on Moons or astriods like mine or reaseach colonies ( i know they use stations for it now but ithink a colonie look maybe cooler and give more bonuses ) and since they arent really habitable you need a special tech must contect them to a planet which provied food for them and pops there only could grow with migration or resettle or you put slaves or robots there.

Also such places may turn in lawless places if the ethos is like fantic marterialist or militarist so and then turn in broken world with a blackmarket and a piratlord. And this worlds would sporn pirat fleeds which start raid other worlds for minerals energy credis and slaves (is there option for raid planets for slaves with out a spaceport ?). And if your empire reach such a lawless sector you can use it for buy slaves from the blackmarket (so far i know you can only enslave people now when you own the planet they are on so this would be a nice extra where you dont have to counqer allways new worlds for get them) hire the pirats as privaters or to raid other empires or pay them some of your weapons or older models of your ships so they can be a thread for others why you pay them off (ofc it can hit you back and the AI should be able to do it too and it would be fun in multiplayer espcial if you found out that the pirats became so strong because a other player equip them and push them toward you). I think this would work great with the idea fo having a big universe where many can happen with out of the players controll even im not sure if the AI can handel this. And for balance reason it would mean you have to care more about your Pops because just supress them or bribe the leader of a faction wont be enough anymore because some of your Pops decide to go and try there luck somewhere else and end up with a break in your economy because your worker run away.

 

[moglus]

Spam worlds with robot colonizers and open colonization to any alien race you meet.

That's.... not a terrible idea actually