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robw963

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Thanks for all the nice compliments guys. I really get into displaying all the "peactime" info and making things informative and interesting. In a lot of ways, it's my favorite part.

@ canonized: Thanks for the compliment on the graphics! It's a lot of fun researching the background for each of the screen subjects. Peace doesn't need to be boring at all! My favorite aspect of this game is planning and peacetime allows for a more attention to the planning aspects of the game (instead of focusing on the urgency of combat situations). My argument has always been that the game is won or lost based on the amount of detailed planning that goes into peactetime production, research, trades, intelligence and diplomacy.

@ jeffh: Actually the Winter War is right on schedule (historically, the USSR attacked Finland on December 1, 1939). As I reported in this thread awhile back, I encountered a problem with certain events not firing after my unexpectedly fast conquest of Germany. I've gone back and fixed those events (Winter War, Soviet annexation of Baltic States, Bessarabia, etc) and have added new ones to model a Polish led alliance vs. the Soviet Union. It took me awhile to sort out and test...but it's all working well now. As for difficulty/aggressiveness settings, I'm playing normal/aggressive.

@ Akaki: You're quite right (see my response above to jeffh). I decided to restore these events to help setup up a chain of events leading to alliances with Hungary and Romania.

@ Enewald: This is actually a pretty cool idea and I'm wishing I had incorporated this into my event chain when I was fixing all the stuff mentioned above, BUT it's kind of too late now and honestly I don't relish the idea of going back, rewriting my events and replaying the last 6 months (sorry)...but a really cool idea!

@ Crush3r: The event chain I mentioned above does incorporate opportunities to incorporate Czech and Slovak provinces into Wielka Polska but those opportunities have not yet arrived. I don't want to wreck the build up to that...but suffice to say it's complicated by the fact that Hungary has claims on parts of Slovakia. I do have a plan here and it's coming! :)

@ Von Perkele: Yeah...wish I had incorporated the send volunteers/materials idea...but I didn't. Oh well.

@ Jedrek: I have also built in revised/new events that address the Baltic States as well. I'm just waiting for a few things to occur before I consider these events plausible (hint: more Soviet aggression).

@ Milites: Haha! I think that's the first time my work was ever described as fattening...but I like that! wait...that's good right?

@ cegorach: I wasn't aware there was a 9TP tank model...possibly you meant 10TP? You always write great posts my friend, I learn something everytime.

@ Zauberfloete: wow! Really nice compliment! Thanks very much. I have a great time making these graphics although I recognize it slows down the turn around process. I guess I'd rather take longer and make things pretty rather than jam these out as fast as I can.

@ Kurt_Steiner: I'm currently in a growth and recovery mode, but it's fair to say that there will be some expansion activity in 1940 that will keep things interesting.

@ Colonel Bran: If only I didn't have a job! But I do...sorry these updates come as slowly as they do, but I'm trying to keep up the quality level and not let urgency dictate things. Know what I mean? Hey, I'm just glad you're interested.
 
Last edited:

cegorach

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robw963 said:
@ cegorach: I wasn't aware there was a 9TP tank model...possibly you meant 10TP? You always write great posts my friend, I learn something everytime.
We are still learning and discovering what projects were planned/designed in Poland before the war - after 1945 it was not a very popular subject thanks to the political system in the country and other factors.

7 TP - basically improved British vickers with a new diesel engine, slightly stronger armour, new turrent, radiostation etc was obsolate in 1939 because its armour was really weak (those captured and used by Germans got improvised armour improvements), some problems with other equipment accured and the tank had to be redesigned.
Still it was an unknown 7 TP crew which became the first Allied tank ace in the war destroying 5 German tanks during the tank mini-battle at Piotrków (most likely the best tank ace in 1939 was one of the 20 mm armed TKS crews which fought during the later part of the battle at Bzura, during the successfull breakthrough to Warsaw).

9 TP was an improved version of 7 TP which was supposed to be delived to both mechanized/tank brigades replacing their obsolate Vickers light tanks.
It basically was better armoured (front 40 mm armour) 7 TP with newly designed and more powerful engine and a number of other improvements.
Actually the tank was heavier than the name suggests - as with most of later designed Polish tanks - it was 10 600 kg.
It is rumoured that first 11 were ready and were used in the defence of Warsaw (a combined tank battalion was formed from vehicles available in the city - some right from the local factory), but it is unclear.
Still was expected to be available in larger numbers in early 1940 so it might be true.



10 TP was a different project. Poland was trying to buy the hybrid tank from Christie, but the Soviets were faster so it was designed in the country. Planned to be used by all future armoured/mechanized brigades the project was a failure - the hybrid tracked/wheeled vehicle was abandoned because it was too weak to fullfill any real role in the army and was all too bound to good roads to work properly (armoured cars were not developed for the same reason).
Still the project served to develop several very modern designs used in later projects.

14 TP - the assault tank designed at the same time as 10 TP quickly abandoned the idea of the hybrid vehicle and became the most probable future medium tank Poland would get. Wasn't ready in 1939, but we can say it would be around 16 tonnes, well armoured and armed with the new 47 mm (tested in 1939) AT cannon and air cooled machine gun model C.
Of course would receive everything what was tested or used in other tanks - tank radiostation and the famous Gundlach's tank periscope used later by all world's armies - the only really meanigful contribution of Polish tank engineers from this part of the war.
Would be available in 1940 - early 1941. Something like the future basic tank for the Polish army.

25 TP - initially proposed as a three turrent medium tank was rethought as a single turrent tanks with strong armour (around 80 mm top) and long barelled 75 mm cannon.
Hard to say when would be available because would be quite demanding for sure.

There were also plans of a heavy tank, but abandoned ecause it was a multi-turrent design proven to be rather a dead end than a good solution as thought earlier.



All in all - numerous ideas, several projects etc prepared when the industry in the COP is fully online and the grand rearmament program is finalised.

There is a controversy of course if Poland should actually do all that to produce its own tanks, but the probalem was noone really could sell them in sufficient quantities (except Germany and the Soviets if someone likes to joke...), eastern front demanded some special features from any designed vehicles and those few available French and British tanks were designed according to different specs (Poland had little use for a slow, heavy, infantry tank like Matilda of French R 35). In addition there was all usual resistence against tanks from more conservative circles (actually too much and wrongly attributed to Piłsudski), priority was given to artillery and war experience from Spain seemed to give greater importance to AT cannons.
Still experience and lessons from this and 1939 campaign were used to push so hardly for the creation of an armoured division in the west. The Home Army also trained cadres for a tank brigade in the underground and was planning to create a unit of this size using captured enemy tanks during the expected liberation (quite many served in underground motorized units, some had the chance to command captured German tanks too).

Actually there was also this memorandum presenting general and detailed experiences from the 1939 campaign (published in France in 1940 by the POL gov. in the exile ) and suggestions how to counter German tactics, but the French and the British decided it is not worth reading a paper written by people who charge tanks with sabres because they had their own, much better ideas while their armies were superior to the German one. :)


As usual too much off-topic, but I like writing complete posts.
 

unmerged(87667)

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cegorach said:
We are still learning and discovering what projects were planned/designed in Poland before the war - after 1945 it was not a very popular subject thanks to the political system in the country and other factors.

..
..

25 TP - initially proposed as a three turrent medium tank was rethought as a single turrent tanks with strong armour (around 80 mm top) and long barelled 75 mm cannon.
Hard to say when would be available because would be quite demanding for sure.

There were also plans of a heavy tank, but abandoned ecause it was a multi-turrent design proven to be rather a dead end than a good solution as thought earlier.




As usual too much off-topic, but I like writing complete posts.
thanks for the Polish ww2 tank history, i have never heard it and its very interesting.
 

unmerged(112641)

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cegorach said:
Giant post goes here
You basically translated the Polish wikipedia on this. 3/10, good attempt.
 

cegorach

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LordSlowpoke said:
You basically translated the Polish wikipedia on this. 3/10, good attempt.
Wonderful, but I didn't. I am too lazy to check sources. I wrote what I remembered and considered important. :p
Thank you for the three I am so much honoured by this award. :rolleyes:


EDIT I am trying to find the wikipedia article about this. Can I ask for a direct link to a similar summary ? I would like to read it myself.

Because for example 14 TP is described by this http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/14TP and surely there must be more than I wrote...
 
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Enewald

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Maybe you can create the event now and claim that the the other slavs have not finished recovering frm the war and have now voted to be incorporated into a Pan-Slavic state? ;)
 

robw963

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cegorach said:
I am trying to find the wikipedia article about this. Can I ask for a direct link to a similar summary ? I would like to read it myself.
I've never found anything that I consider to be a definitive resource about Polish armor, however I think the Achtung Panzer website does a fair job: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/polish-tanks-and-tankettes.htm
 

cegorach

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robw963 said:
I've never found anything that I consider to be a definitive resource about Polish armor, however I think the Achtung Panzer website does a fair job: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/polish-tanks-and-tankettes.htm
Fair indeed, though really outdated in many ways. There is for example no mention about engeneer Habich's medium tank sometimes nicknamed 34 TP because the project was very similar to the Soviet tank (sloped armour, turrent with the 'Micky Mouse' feature etc) - mysterious to say the least.
 

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Well, if the story's true, I guess we should be proud of such things - in the same way I'm proud that PZL P.11 and P.24 were used by the Romanians as a base for their IAR fighter-bombers.
 

robw963

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Upgrade Analysis Correction

So I have just noticed a mistake in my last update that I'd like to correct. That mistake is found HERE and relates to the upgrade calculation from the TK-S equipped armored division to the 10TP equipped armored division (2 models upgraded). I previously incorrectly reported that the savings for each upgrade was 1/2 the cost and 1/4 the cost (or 1/8 = 12.5% of the cost of building from scratch). While this is generally correct, there is an additional 1/4 time cost savings when upgrading twice, modifiying the 7TP upgrade cost from 12.5% down to 3.125% (1/2 x 1/4 x 1/4 = 1/32 = 3.125%). That's a big difference, nearly a 100 IC days savings better than previously stated. A more complete explanation of this savings can be found on the HOI2 Wiki site. Sorry about that, but at least I discovered the mistake!

 

unmerged(87183)

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That's a great increase in IC days.

I like how you explained what an IC day is worth.

Anyways, hopefully things go well, trying to bring Finland into an Alliance and all.
 

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WIELKOPOLSKA - Phase 3 - Reaching Out to the World



December 10 - 30, 1939 - World Trade:

As my production and resource gathering capability reach maximum capacity, I receive a series of trade offers from a variety of countries. These deals will serve multiple purposes:
  1. Increase my money supply and allow me to move my Consumer Goods slider allocation downwards when I'm finished removing dissent
  2. Balance my reource flow and allow me to stockpile Oil and Rares for a future war with the USSR
  3. Improve relations with countries which trade with me
  4. Support the Finns who are currently trying desperately to hold off a Soviet invation
The Finns are one of the few countries I'll trade with where I'll accept unprofitable trade deals. I view this as an investment in better future relations with them.



December 17, 1939 - 1:00 - Status Report on the Winter War:

The Soviets have made a breakthough in the Finnish province of Kajaani where their superior numbers are beginning to wear down the qualitatively superior Finns. I'll continue to do what I can to assist them with unprofitable trade deals, but I dare not intervene militarily. I can't begin a war with the Soviets prematurely.



December 12-28, 1939 - 1:00 - Steadily Improving Internal Security:

In a further 2 week surge of effort, I'm half way towards the establishment of a strong internal counter-intelligence infrastructure which will allow me to purge Poland from foreign infiltrators.



December 25, 1939 - 0:00 - Quelling Dissent and Revolt Risk:

Parallel to my counter-intelligence effort, partisan activity in occupied territories is being reduced with a combination of garrision deployments and militia. On Christmas morning, my first mmilitia division is deployed in Kutna Hora, the center of Czech territory where there is high dissent and industrial capacity.



December 12-28 1939 - 0:00 - A Marathon Diplomatic Push:

Continuing my recent diplomatic efforts, I focus resources on the 3 most powerful nations on earth in an effort to improve relations. My immediate goals are as follows:
  1. Create a friendlier diplomatic environment to help in future trade negotiations
  2. Preserve access to the superior technologies of the western alliance
  3. Warm up to the United States to gain access to their vast oil reserve which I'll need to stockpile to support a future armored force
  4. Keep the Soviets at bay until I'm ready for a war. Current relations with them are dangerously bad.



Soon it will be 1940, a new decade where Poland will fulfill its promises.
 

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Those poor Finns =( . We knew this would happen though .

I loved the little James Bond action there with the Walther XD

And amazing Edwardian format for the diplomatic pouch !
 

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Those upgrade costs you've used assume no adjustments from slider positions. This seems a little unlikely so you probably need to make a second adjustment. This is affected by the army slider and economy slider.
 

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Instead of LARM1 i would biuld ARM1, after all LARM3 will upgrade to ARM3 and upgrading ARM1 to ARM3 is probably cheaper than LARM1 to ARM3.
 

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Maybe you could again try to demand soviet territory? :D
And sell some old stuff to the finns? :rolleyes:
Or supplies!

Or create a event like italy and germany have when they send divisions to aid franco in Spanish civil war, you could also loan divisions to finnland with an event, and after the war few of your divisions could have gained a lot of experience and generals gained skills and traits? ;)