Wide play style and tedium

[stumason]

This is what I don't get. Why are you feeling the need to resettle so many pops? Once a planet fills up and there's just a bit of unemployment/overcrowding pop growth and pop decline start to balance out, leading to population equilibrium. So long as the planet is otherwise stable that little bit of unemployment/overcrowding shouldn't make a difference. Only time I've ever resettled pops in 2.2 is if I want to jump-start a really good new planet; I've never done so to relieve overcrowding.

Exactly - I think too many people are either trying to play the game like they did before 2.2 and hitting a wall, yet not learning from it or simply are a bit OCD and feel the need to min/max everything when it is totally not necessary.

Unemployment can be good - it drives emigration to your other worlds with spare jobs/housing

Overcrowding can be good - see above.

In fact, it is entirely desirable to have your homeworld full to the brim and then some before your first colony is created - the boost to pop growth gets it out of the colony stage (and that annoying -50% to growth modifier) very quickly. Earlier today, I had +0.27 growth on Earth due to overcrowding, but a nice +6 or so on Mars (my 1st colony - I am using a mod which changes the Sol system). it was a fully formed Forge world in no time!

 

[Dustman]

@stumason you forget that immigration is just a number, taken at one planet and added to another. Without mods you'd get basic 3 points growth for bio, halved for colonies. Immigration just helps to close that gap. Having homeworld + two colonies you get double growth, period. Things like Corvee System or Free Haven, combined with Nomad, simply create pops out of thin air, increasing migration. This means you sacrifice a building or two yearly on to get bigger economy bit later, but if it worth it comes down to situation and playstyle. Life-seeded plus raiding can get you far, but you'd be limited by building slots, for example. Plus unemployed pops do not provide much/any benefits for all too many playstyles => pops need to be moved. And so original post's complain.

 

[stumason]

@stumason you forget that immigration is just a number, taken at one planet and added to another. Without mods you'd get basic 3 points growth for bio, halved for colonies. Immigration just helps to close that gap. Having homeworld + two colonies you get double growth, period. Things like Corvee System or Free Haven, combined with Nomad, simply create pops out of thin air, increasing migration. This means you sacrifice a building or two yearly on to get bigger economy bit later, but if it worth it comes down to situation and playstyle. Life-seeded plus raiding can get you far, but you'd be limited by building slots, for example. Plus unemployed pops do not provide much/any benefits for all too many playstyles => pops need to be moved. And so original post's complain.

Hmmm, not entirely sure what you're saying here! But yes, I know it's a number, I didn't forget, I even put the numbers in my post. My point is, use it - why wait 300 months (100/3=33.3 x 9) for your colony to grow into something useful, when you can make it happen faster?

New Colonies add emigration push, so you can only stand up a certain amount of new colonies at any one time before you gimp your homeworld's growth entirely, even if you have sufficient housing and jobs, so it makes sense to get them to grow as quick as you can so they don't add that "newly founded colony" push on your homeworld. Then, once you have two developed worlds, they both can add to the next new colony and help that stand up faster - so on and so forth.

In your example, where you have two colonies and a homeworld, you may have the same amount of growth, but it's putting the growth where it is needed (ie, those shiny new worlds with rich deposits you specifically chose) and not on your homeworld where all it's going to do is add a new farmer. So, again, use the emigration mechanic to grow these pops faster. You have 3 + 1.5 + 1.5 for a total of 6 growth across the 3 worlds - why not focus that 6 growth on the two worlds that need growing by allowing that unemployed dude to push up your emigration?

Of course, your alternative is to spend forever moving pops about manually, effectively doing the exact same thing the game is quite happy to do for you at no extra effort on your part, but then you can't moan about micromanagement. In some Empire types, you can't even resettle anyway. As someone else said earlier, allow the game to balance your pops for the most part - I only resettle if there is a pressing need, for example if I take over some filthy xenos world and want to make sure I have an ample supply of enforcers and rulers to increase stability.

 

[AlanC9]

I never play anything bigger than small, with default planet count, since my laptop simply can't handle it well past first century. Even with Small game is painfully slow by the end of the second. And very often I'd get 10+ planets mostly from colonization by 2230 in presumably peaceful reactive game, where aggression is just to break boredom. Add Horizon Signal ending, and Gray Tempest, and count is around 40 w/o much expansion. Put on habitats and you're in 60s by year 150. Add just a bit of conquest and you can easily get close to 80. Start as a dedicated conqueror/genocidal and you'd get at least 3-4 homeworlds by 2230, with assortment of smaller worlds if desired.

When you're sitting #2 just beside FE there's no point going forward, unless you want to fight aforementioned FE and end crisis. And you can easily get to this position with just a handful of planets, depending on difficulty.

I'm a little confused by this. The game is painfully slow on your rig... but you want to have less to do?

 

[LeanneKaos]

It wasn't like this before the update. You could take planets you had mostly built the way you wanted them, and add them to automated sectors without limits. There was a 25% tax on what they made but it didn't matter much to a wide empire.

And it bored me to tears by the midgame. Even moreso when the game went hyperlane-only.
The tedium of busywork is infinitely preferable to the tedium of sitting on my hands waiting for something to happen.

 

[Acheron]

Question: how exactly does migration work? One would assume that people moving away from one planet go to another, and the other way round, that people coming to a planet have left somewhere. But from what I read here (migration out of thin air), it sounds to me like this is not the case, that the Nomadic-trait is essentially working like the Fertile-Trait. I am confused.

 

[Dustman]

I'm a little confused by this. The game is painfully slow on your rig... but you want to have less to do?

Yeah, I want to simply make some decisions ones in awhile instead of pausing every five minutes for five minutes to move all these pops in need of moving.

Question: how exactly does migration work? One would assume that people moving away from one planet go to another, and the other way round, that people coming to a planet have left somewhere. But from what I read here (migration out of thin air), it sounds to me like this is not the case, that the Nomadic-trait is essentially working like the Fertile-Trait. I am confused.

If you hover over migration number and over pops, you can see if they match. Easiest scenario is one planet and one colony. In colony number won't match if you got specific traits/civics. So yes, they simply come out of nowhere. For early colonization rush Nomadic can even beat Rapid Breeders. Plus it may stay useful much longer depending on playstyle. Default Commonwealth is a rather strong pick atm.

 

[Urza1234]

Question: how exactly does migration work? One would assume that people moving away from one planet go to another, and the other way round, that people coming to a planet have left somewhere. But from what I read here (migration out of thin air), it sounds to me like this is not the case, that the Nomadic-trait is essentially working like the Fertile-Trait. I am confused.

Its pretty simple actually, Migration is a function of the relationship of emigration push to immigration pull for a group of related planets.

1. A planet with more emigration push than immigration pull will have net Emigration. This will "push" a percentage of that planet's growth to the immigration pool of all related planets. That percentage caps at 95% of a planet's final growth being converted into emigration, at a net emigration push value of 100.

2. Planets with net immigration will have a portion of all the growth being added to their related immigration pool added onto their final, in an amount relative to the immigration pulls of related planets. IE, if Earth is pushing 5 growth into its related pool, and Mars has a net immigration of even 1, it will get all 5 pops worth of growth added on. However, if both Mars and Saturn each have a net immigration of 1, Earth's 5 emigration will get split between Mars and Saturn, so they'll each get 2.5 added growth.

2.1 Immigration Pull cannot steal growth from planets that do not already have net emigration themselves. If all planets in a related group have net emigration, no one will migrate. If all planets in a related group have net immigration, no one will migrate. Immigration pull only serves as a weight to determine which planets with net immigration will receive any pre-existing net emigration. The following is an example screenshot from my current testing game:
https://imgur.com/DYIeCNu
In it I have every planet except the colony shown at net emigration. The colony shown has a net immigration of only 7, yet its receiving ALL emigration being pushed from all related planets, because its the only available target.

2.2 Total base immigration is usually capped at 5 per planet. Meaning that even if Earth is emigrating 10 growth per month, if only Mars is available to receive that emigration, 5 growth worth of migration is being lost per month. This growth is magically dying in transit.

3. Nomadic multiplies the final added growth a planet is getting via migration by 115%, so indeed this growth is magically coming out of thin air. Earth is getting 95% of its growth value subtracted, and Mars is getting 109.25% of Earth's growth value added, if the pop in question thats growing has the nomadic trait and exists in Earth's emigration pool.

4. Note that while the species distribution of a planet with net Emigration Push does weight the growth species of planets receiving that immigration, that emigration weight can be severely outvalued by mechanics like Habitability, or new_pop_species_div, meaning that planets can receive tons of growth from immigration, but produce species completely disproportionate to the species being emigrated. These pops can essentially magically change race in transit.

 

[Acheron]

@Urza1234 Thank you, that was VERY helpful.

So, Humans default traits, Nomadic and Adaptable, Nomadic will increase the amount of growth on planets receiving immigration and Adaptable will make more of these POPs humans due to better habitability?

 

[Acheron]

I'm a little confused by this. The game is painfully slow on your rig... but you want to have less to do?

Games like Stellaris are about making decisions. But these better be fun and interesting decisions, otherwise, we could do data entry and get paid for it.

 

[AlanC9]

But having to balance your economy already is more interesting than the old system.

In the late game, of course, you don't have to balance anything because you've won.

 

[AlanC9]

Its pretty simple actually, Migration is a function of the relationship of emigration push to immigration pull for a group of related planets.

"Group of related planets" meaning... an empire and everyone having a migration treaty with it?

 

[Dustman]

"Group of related planets" meaning... an empire and everyone having a migration treaty with it?

you can actually see where pops can migrate

 

[stumason]

Question: how exactly does migration work? One would assume that people moving away from one planet go to another, and the other way round, that people coming to a planet have left somewhere. But from what I read here (migration out of thin air), it sounds to me like this is not the case, that the Nomadic-trait is essentially working like the Fertile-Trait. I am confused.

While technically I suppose it is "out of thin air", it is taking growth from one world and putting it on another, effectively simulating movement of population. I think of pop growth not just as brand spanking new people being grown/born, but the overall net affect of everything that contributes to such a thing - immigration/emigration/births/deaths/spontaneous orgies and the like.

 

[(Accountdeleted)]

I think of pop growth ... just as … spontaneous orgies....

To take just the essential part of the quote. ;o)
I mean I thought about that for around 4 hours now - and came to one question: Are there any new mixed species if there are different species on the planet? This feature is missing I guess. I´d like to see it.

 

[stumason]

To take just the essential part of the quote. ;o)
I mean I thought about that for around 4 hours now - and came to one question: Are there any new mixed species if there are different species on the planet? This feature is missing I guess. I´d like to see it.

Oh no, it's there! I think it's an ascension perk or something - xeno compatibility? I don't allow it, I mean, spontaneous orgies are great, but not when giant starfish are looking to tangle with your junk!

If you allow "xeno loving", then you end up with half-breed pops with a selection of traits from each

 

[Sir Roderick]

Oh no, it's there! I think it's an ascension perk or something - xeno compatibility? I don't allow it, I mean, spontaneous orgies are great, but not when giant starfish are looking to tangle with your junk!

If you allow "xeno loving", then you end up with half-breed pops with a selection of traits from each

It's nice if you're trying to RP the Elders from Xcom2, who added human dna to every alien battle thralls they had:

 

[stumason]

That didn't just help him grow muscle and teeth, he grew a mouth!!

And extra fingers!

 

[Sir Roderick]

That didn't just help him grow muscle and teeth, he grew a mouth!!

And extra fingers!

See, Gleeplebrox 9 Scientists are so awesome that they give you extra features that are not even on the brochure!

 

[(Accountdeleted)]

Oh no, it's there! I think it's an ascension perk or something - xeno compatibility? I don't allow it, I mean, spontaneous orgies are great, but not when giant starfish are looking to tangle with your junk!

If you allow "xeno loving", then you end up with half-breed pops with a selection of traits from each

Haha - thanks.^^ I don´t care about the AI in game anymore - now everything is fine. Also saw Your link in that other thread. Sometimes it´s obvious that i´m new to this game. There´s much to learn. But as a sidenote: I would like to see those mixed species too - not just mixed traits with either the one or the other avatar. It´s about the creation and so on so forth - creativity and such - learning about how other species behave - not about the sexual content. Perhaps add in some small video about the - hmm - I better stop writing at this point.^^