Why?

[Slinns]

Hehe, never visited there. Are they hating on us?

No, they do not hate you. The competition - that's good.
It is possible that EA decides to regain the title of the best developer in this genre. Let's wait for the new rethought SimCity.

 

[KyleJ]

No, they do not hate you. The competition - that's good.
It is possible that EA decides to regain the title of the best developer in this genre. Let's wait for the new reinterpreted SimCity.

What? I don't understand.

 

[Engioc]

I'd have to say I agree with others that having open beta testing really doesn't have a very good track record of producing better games. You often get people who are more interested in being the first to play the game so they can boast about it rather than doing any serious bug testing. I have never ever been a fan of open beta testing, even worse when some companies expect you to pay them for the privilege of finding bugs, just a cheap ass way of getting more money out of fans for doing the job of the developer.

I know nobody has suggested they make us pay, but I see nothing worthwhile in open/public beta testing. Far better to leave it to their own internal testers who, as stated by others, have direct contact with the dev team and are going to actually bug test rather than just enjoying the game for their own selfish benefit. Out of the many games I've played I can't remember any that were better because of public beta testing and more often than not are left wondering what those public beta testers were doing when the game is still released full of bugs....to be honest you can sometimes say the same of internal beta testing but still why bother with public beta testers when the results are the same.

No, just hating EA with vengeance.

You know for all the bad things I can say about EA and SC2013 I don't really hate them. I'm as disappointed as anyone with how SC2013 turned out and these days I always prefer the smaller companies like Paradox/CO, Kalypso because the bigger guys like EA can easily lose the plot entirely and when a game fails their attitude is to drop it and move on. These smaller companies are far more likely to fix the bugs because if they piss off the fans too much it can have a more serious impact on the company. SC2013 isn't what we all expected, and I've had my fair share of complaints with it, but it did manage to do some things right.

and.....

I don't know how Maxis is going to recover from it, maybe bring back Will Wright start up a team and start from scratch.

I honestly think this is something EA will try and do. I've said it before, it takes great people to make great games...but the question is does Will Wright care enough to get involved with EA and SC any more. Last I heard Will Wright was no longer interested in game development and was busy on other stuff like his robots wars. So EA might ask, but Will might say no, I guess it depends how much he still cares, and perhaps how much money they offer him .

I'd add a little extra to this as well....in previous posts here there was a suggestion that C:SL would not of been created if not for SC2013, or at least will learn a lot from it so as not to make the same mistakes...and I do agree with that, but....

I'd say after the release of C:SL all of the other developers involved in city builders, EA/Maxis, Kalypso, CXL(sorry I dont remember the devs name)...anyway they'll all be taking a good look at this game and be learning a lot from it. As far as I'm concerned C:SL has already stolen the No.1 position from EA because of the editor, modding, and most importantly its new water system......I'll bet any money that after C:SL every other developer will be wanting a water system like this game is going to have, that dynamic water flow, from height, the possibilities are huge imo and everyone else will want to copy it and try and work out how to improve on it. I know water seems like such a simple thing, but to me finally seeing a game that allows for realistic water flow is brilliant, mountain streams, lakes, waterfalls, rivers, yeah I'm excited about this feature because I love creating natural maps and cities.

 

[JsonGold]

"I know water seems like such a simple thing, but to me finally seeing a game that allows for realistic water flow is brilliant"

I too like the water system. It looks nice. But can you elaborate on how it will effect gameplay? So far I can see it playing into where you put your water supply and waste, but what else. Help me understand how this is going to make the game more fun etc. Just wondering cause I would like to get more excited about it too.

 

[medopu]

"I know water seems like such a simple thing, but to me finally seeing a game that allows for realistic water flow is brilliant"

I too like the water system. It looks nice. But can you elaborate on how it will effect gameplay? So far I can see it playing into where you put your water supply and waste, but what else. Help me understand how this is going to make the game more fun etc. Just wondering cause I would like to get more excited about it too.

Because gameplay is now very different if you start on a map with a huge river or if you start with just one small lake. While in the first situation, you can build lots of hydro dams and release untreated water down the stream, in second scenario, you cannot build hydro power plant nor can you dump the waste water back into the water source...except if you're evil enough to make all your residents sick

 

[Engioc]

"I know water seems like such a simple thing, but to me finally seeing a game that allows for realistic water flow is brilliant"

I too like the water system. It looks nice. But can you elaborate on how it will effect gameplay? So far I can see it playing into where you put your water supply and waste, but what else. Help me understand how this is going to make the game more fun etc. Just wondering cause I would like to get more excited about it too.

Because gameplay is now very different if you start on a map with a huge river or if you start with just one small lake. While in the first situation, you can build lots of hydro dams and release untreated water down the stream, in second scenario, you cannot build hydro power plant nor can you dump the waste water back into the water source...except if you're evil enough to make all your residents sick

I guess to some degree its still to be seen how it really affects gameplay beyond determining where you put your water pumps, dams, and waste water. Not sure what else you would need it for anyway. It may not specifically affect much in the way of gameplay but I'd argue that the beauty of a map is every bit as important as any other feature in a city builder game, and this water flow system combined with an editor should allow people to get really creative with maps and do stuff that simply wasn't possible any of the previous city builder games except SC2000 back in 1994, and even then this is far above the old square block style of that old classic.

If its one thing I get tired of seeing from so many city builders and the people who often play them is this constant boring square, perfectly flat maps you see. I know building on hills is often hard in city builders but most cities just end up looking incredibly ugly and boring. Building everything on flat terrain is simple, easy, any idiot can do it....first thing I'll be doing when I get this game will be going in to the editor to find out whats possible and finally start working on some of the great ideas I've had but been unable to do until C:SL gave us realistic water and challenging myself to build a city on a hilly map full of rivers, lakes, mountains, waterfalls etc etc.

 

[JsonGold]

[/QUOTE]If its one thing I get tired of seeing from so many city builders and the people who often play them is this constant boring square, perfectly flat maps you see. I know building on hills is often hard in city builders but most cities just end up looking incredibly ugly and boring. Building everything on flat terrain is simple, easy, any idiot can do it....first thing I'll be doing when I get this game will be going in to the editor to find out whats possible and finally start working on some of the great ideas I've had but been unable to do until C:SL gave us realistic water and challenging myself to build a city on a hilly map full of rivers, lakes, mountains, waterfalls etc etc.[/QUOTE]

Maps with lots of hills and rivers look way better in my opinion. Plus, as you said, the extra challenge of building such is city is great fun. In SC4 I don't think I ever played on a totally flat map with no water. Big bridges and waterfronts are cool. Lonely roads that snake up a hillside to a sleepy little town on top.

 

[Engioc]

If its one thing I get tired of seeing from so many city builders and the people who often play them is this constant boring square, perfectly flat maps you see. I know building on hills is often hard in city builders but most cities just end up looking incredibly ugly and boring. Building everything on flat terrain is simple, easy, any idiot can do it....first thing I'll be doing when I get this game will be going in to the editor to find out whats possible and finally start working on some of the great ideas I've had but been unable to do until C:SL gave us realistic water and challenging myself to build a city on a hilly map full of rivers, lakes, mountains, waterfalls etc etc.

Maps with lots of hills and rivers look way better in my opinion. Plus, as you said, the extra challenge of building such is city is great fun. In SC4 I don't think I ever played on a totally flat map with no water. Big bridges and waterfronts are cool. Lonely roads that snake up a hillside to a sleepy little town on top.

Exactly the sort of stuff I enjoy doing too....and I really feel the map editor plus realistic water flow just goes that extra step towards making a map/city that looks real.

I guess in a way the thing I am most excited about is this game seems to be laying down a good foundation on which to expand on in time as updates are released, and as technology improves for a long series of C:SL games. They are doing something that will be copied and improved upon by themselves and other developers looking to make a city builder, finally a city builder that is going to raise the bench mark and push the competition to do better, the water system is a perfect example. Maybe right now its impact on the city itself will be minimal, but once its done CO and others can gradually improve on its realism and find ways to make it really affect the cities we build, not just in terms of pollution but fertile farming land and irrigation, perhaps ways to divert the water for purposes other than farming too, I feel its a feature that can be greatly expanded upon in future games. I also think the whole thing around population and how many cims actually get simulated is good too, it's a step towards simulating every cim and although for now we'll be stuck on 1 million max, as tech improves the limits can steadily be increased (map sizes increased too). They've made a start which is what I like most about this game, its an investment in the future of city builders.

 

[Garensterz]

Hello Colossal Order and Paradox!
Until recently I was a dev-tester SimCity.
We had a team of about 20 active testers.
A few months before the release we received nearly a release build of the game to look for critical errors and bugs.
After the release we have come with the team Maxis is testing a variety of updates and additional materials. We had a closed forum(viewed developers), where we could talk about bugs and propose to add anything to the game.

I am with this. Although it doesn't work every time but I always wanted this as a policy in game industries where all games must have public betas even though it cost more just to make sure the game will reach it's full potential.

 

[AKicebear]

I am with this. Although it doesn't work every time but I always wanted this as a policy in game industries where all games must have public betas even though it cost more just to make sure the game will reach it's full potential.

A public beta clearly is not a panacea. Read the full thread for some reasons why.

 

[magitsu]

Beta testers are one thing. What the company decides to do with their results is another. Some bugs can and will get assigned such a low priority that they will never get patched.
Business reasons, etc. etc.

I think SC beta testers have been as good as any, but the company just didn't allocate enough time to fix them. Also some technicals were obviously forced on (online required) so these things add up. They obviously weren't aiming for the best product. Maybe for the most profitable one... which they failed horribly with their public listed company logic of maxing the next quarter's profits - and pissing away a billion dollar franchise due to unnecessary haste and forcing the devs hands to accept some backwards logic limitations. Which is nearly the same that is happening to Sims 4. Similar drift from original vision is evident.

 

[uebs]

Beta testers are one thing. What the company decides to do with their results is another. Some bugs can and will get assigned such a low priority that they will never get patched.
Business reasons, etc. etc.

I think SC beta testers have been as good as any, but the company just didn't allocate enough time to fix them. Also some technicals were obviously forced on (online required) so these things add up. They obviously weren't aiming for the best product. Maybe for the most profitable one... which they failed horribly with their public listed company logic of maxing the next quarter's profits - and pissing away a billion dollar franchise due to unnecessary haste and forcing the devs hands to accept some backwards logic limitations. Which is nearly the same that is happening to Sims 4. Similar drift from original vision is evident.

I loaded up that game recently, and things are still not fixed in that game...I think they've given up and moved on to like simcity build it lol...I guess now with offline play, they can turn off their servers for multi or something

What was wrong with Sims 4?

 

[Person012345]

I loaded up that game recently, and things are still not fixed in that game...I think they've given up and moved on to like simcity build it lol...I guess now with offline play, they can turn off their servers for multi or something

What was wrong with Sims 4?

The Sims 4 basically removed most of the remaining content from (base) sims 3 (probably for packaging into DLC) and then, most critically, went back to constant loading screens. Sims 3 took a step forward with it's persistent and continuously simulated town that you could wander about at will with things happening and people aging and so on, even if it wasn't an advancement in every way. Sims 4 is just flat out worse than sims 3 (especially if you already own sims 3 DLC), the things it does improve are generally small things (like multi-tasking and the ease of social interactions), and it's arguably worse than all of the previous iterations (although perhaps only in a relative sense). EA knew this, which is why they didn't release review copies until 1 day before release.

 

[uebs]

The Sims 4 basically removed most of the remaining content from (base) sims 3 (probably for packaging into DLC) and then, most critically, went back to constant loading screens. Sims 3 took a step forward with it's persistent and continuously simulated town that you could wander about at will with things happening and people aging and so on, even if it wasn't an advancement in every way. Sims 4 is just flat out worse than sims 3 (especially if you already own sims 3 DLC), the things it does improve are generally small things (like multi-tasking and the ease of social interactions), and it's arguably worse than all of the previous iterations (although perhaps only in a relative sense). EA knew this, which is why they didn't release review copies until 1 day before release.

Lol is that a EA conspiracy theory or proven fact...

I guess that explains why my little cousin still plays 3 even though they have a copy of 4...

I guess that's why they still dont' have mod tools, why create them when you can create DLCs and MILK the base, (lol the base is like a bunch of teenage girls for the most part...)

Anyhow, gotta love it when companies have to appease the shareholders and forget about the customer base, the thing with The SIMS is there is no competition, unlike city builders which is getting a healthy amount of games after the SC2013 fiasco.

 

[Susanna]

What was wrong with Sims 4?

They left out things that were in not only the basegame of Sims 3, but in that of Sims 2. Babies are objects, a la Sims 1. Toddlers don't exist at all; the object baby catapults out of its bassinet and turns into a child in a flash of fireworks. Teens are identical in appearance to Young Adults, Adults, and Elders.

Towns are miniscule and claustrophobic (five empty lots in each of two neighborhoods). The lots are smaller than in Sims 2 or 3 (and I think Sims 1, though I have not played that in over a decade - just my impression). No family trees. (They were too lazy to write a text file?)

Everything is separated by a plethora of loading screens, and rather boring loading screens, at that.

All this stuff was left out so we could have things nobody wanted, like annoying walk styles, "bro" life aspiration, and a mandatory connection to Origin.

For some bizarre reason, it hasn't sold very well!

 

[hert]

Cities in Motion 2 had a closed beta so, wouldnt surprise me that the knowledge they gain from that was it might be too costly for the small Dev team to set up and run. So this might be the reason they are not doing a closed beta test.

 

[magitsu]

What was wrong with Sims 4?

Only thing that is living are the Sims under your control. Everyone else is just a pawn that will magically appear wherever you'll be going. Or come to ring your doorbell.
There's no (independent) story progression.
It's easier and quicker for fast gameplay fun, but ultimately lifeless compared to S3. That one managed to simulate a realistic human community, rudimentarily. This one is more of a paper thin stage. Imagine CK2 where only your dynasty is active. Others just wait to react to your whim.

 

[charlesnew]

I think they're leaving lots of things out from the Sims 3 because they want to add it as DLC, most likely paid DLC. You know how EA is. They might be doing what CO is planning, get the base game out first, then release more as time goes by.

 

[Person012345]

I think they're leaving lots of things out from the Sims 3 because they want to add it as DLC, most likely paid DLC. You know how EA is. They might be doing what CO is planning, get the base game out first, then release more as time goes by.

Yes, but they won't be adding a live world in DLC and there's absolutely no reason to buy the sims 4 when the sims 3 is cheaper, has more content, is fundamentally better and is available on steam (instead of only Origin). Why on earth would one shell out hundreds of dollars for the sims 4 if one already has the sims 3 and has any DLC for it already? If you don't have any of the previous sim games, then maybe it's a toss up as to whether you prefer being able to talk whilst cooking or whether you want a world that actually exists outside your immediate area, but for anyone that owns sims 3 there is really no reason I can fathom to buy the sims 4. Even the sims 2 is probably a better buy at this point because of the price.

 

[charlesnew]

Yes, but they won't be adding a live world in DLC and there's absolutely no reason to buy the sims 4 when the sims 3 is cheaper, has more content, is fundamentally better and is available on steam (instead of only Origin). Why on earth would one shell out hundreds of dollars for the sims 4 if one already has the sims 3 and has any DLC for it already? If you don't have any of the previous sim games, then maybe it's a toss up as to whether you prefer being able to talk whilst cooking or whether you want a world that actually exists outside your immediate area, but for anyone that owns sims 3 there is really no reason I can fathom to buy the sims 4. Even the sims 2 is probably a better buy at this point because of the price.

I can agree with you. Plus, one cool thing in the Sims 3 is that you can edit your town.