Why were Corps removed?

[Leadfingers]

The latest Dev Diary really seems clear in the sense that the old Division-Corps-Army-ArmyGroup-Theater model has been killed in favor of simply Division-Army-Theater

Was the old system deemed to be too complicated? I rather liked it, compared to this new model.

 

[Zaku]

There is an other active topic about this on the first page:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/oob-hearts-of-iron-iv-and-iii.903684/

 

[Oddb@ll]

Too much micro I think

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

Why do you link to another thread? Often they don't cover the asked question and the linked thread goes off topic.

Edit: Ok this time it is the same, but a simple answer would be great.

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

To the question. The developers want to make the game easer, so they put the corps system out because of the micromanagement. It also gives a placebo effect as a new player who sees all these regiments linked to divisions, corps and armies will most likely not be willing to work throught the mechanics. When you only get an easy view of what you have you immediately think the game is easy.

 

[Suchet]

I suspect that the main reason that corps are gone is that the AI simply could not handle the corps-army OOB. In HoI3 the Ai could not maintain corps integrity - your divisions would be sent anywhere along the superior HQ's front. In HoI IV lower level HQ's are gone and your divisions will go anywhere along their HQ's front.

 

[Sharp163]

Corps weren't needed anymore, because now you can have very small divisions.

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

Corps consist of a few divisions. In HoI3 all divisions where connected to a HQ. That was a Corps.

 

[Sharp163]

Corps consist of a few divisions. In HoI3 all divisions where connected to a HQ. That was a Corps.

Forgive me then, I must've misunderstood your question I didn't play HOI3, so I was basing my assumption off the guess that corps were small task forces, such as the division size necessary to capture an island.

I am in no position to make another guess, but if I had to, I would say that corps were removed because paradox wants to slim it down to 2 layers: a general commanding an army or army group, and a field marshal commanding a group of generals.

 

[Alex_brunius]

I didn't know corps were added to HoI4 in the first place, so how can they have been removed?

 

[jamesd]

paradox wants to slim it down to 2 layers: a general commanding an army or army group, and a field marshal commanding a group of generals.

That's not correct. There is only a single layer of command where a General or Field Marshal directly controls a group, called an Army, of one or more divisions. There is no mechanism whereby Generals are subordinated to Field Marshals. The Theatre layer can't have a leader assigned to it. It is purely a mechanism to group a number of Armies for player convenience.

 

[safe-keeper]

I didn't know corps were added to HoI4 in the first place, so how can they have been removed?

+1

 

[benst36]

Panzer and Mot/Mech-inf. Corps for Front breakthough, and for spezial-units (gebirgsjäger, Marine and Fallschirmjäger) Corps.

 

[Ultimate_Hobo]

Because the OOB was intimidating to many new players - it looks complicated, in spite of it not being. I know that i found it off putting at first and it still deters me from playing nations like the USSR since i cant be bothered sorting out the default setup (seriously, why are all the starting setups so stupid).

 

[commanderx]

I learned about OOB and the rest about HOI3 mechanics from playing a smaller nation, like Latvia or Cuba. Will probably do the same with HOI4 and move up from there.
While not contributing anything to this conversation , I must say I rather enjoyed OOB, especially in Black Ice mod, where they gave you even more different corps to select

 

[rjohansen]

That's not correct. There is only a single layer of command where a General or Field Marshal directly controls a group, called an Army, of one or more divisions. There is no mechanism whereby Generals are subordinated to Field Marshals. The Theatre layer can't have a leader assigned to it. It is purely a mechanism to group a number of Armies for player convenience.

What? If so I have misunderstood. I thought there was at least two layers... Allthough I wanted more. But no layers at all? This ruins the day for me

 

[vicerory]

I suspect that the main reason that corps are gone is that the AI simply could not handle the corps-army OOB. In HoI3 the Ai could not maintain corps integrity - your divisions would be sent anywhere along the superior HQ's front. In HoI IV lower level HQ's are gone and your divisions will go anywhere along their HQ's front.

I agree that they probably removed it to facilitate the battle planner and the AI, but it's not clear (to me at least) why the AI couldn't deal with 1 big group and several subgroups. After all those battle groups you deploy are supposed to keep integrity and present a solid front line without gaps, right? If the AI can manage several of those groups next to each other, why couldn't it do so if there was another layer over top of that (like Corps/Army or Army/Army Group)? I'm no programmer but that seems reasonable enough to me.

 

[jamesd]

What? If so I have misunderstood. I thought there was at least two layers... Allthough I wanted more. But no layers at all? This ruins the day for me

Agreed. I would have thought it was a no brainer for Paradox to allocate FM's to Theatres and have Generals directly under them commanding the divisions, but that's not the way it is at the moment. I hope there will be some changes in this area in expansions or updates after the game has been released.

 

[Midden]

There does seem to be some short cuts to the concepts of command structure in the new design.

For land combat, I can see that the programming effort needed for the AI to effectively use a more than 1 level OOB would be daunting. But at-least they have given players some tools to manage / add immersion, as the small groups under a General can be named as the player wants, i.e. a Group of divisions called XXX Corps can be in the game if you want.

Fleets seem to be assigned to admirals.

Air does not seem to not have any command assignments, not sure why, as this seems to me to lack some flavor to the game.

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

@Sharp163 I am in no position to make another guess
Of course you are. Your opinion is important and your guess was correct