Why was eduard daladier removed?

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ZeDango

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The focuses "form the popular front" and "revive the national bloc" used to change leaders to leon blum and pierre laval respectively. Now it just starts with laval. Why?

Is this a bug? He was still the president until 1940 (If I remember correctly) IRL.
 

Bki

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The focuses "form the popular front" and "revive the national bloc" used to change leaders to leon blum and pierre laval respectively. Now it just starts with laval. Why?

Is this a bug? He was still the president until 1940 (If I remember correctly) IRL.

The reason is that not much effort was put on France (and most effort actually put was misguided).

Historically Blum's government fell apart in 37, from a combination of disagreement on what to do with Spain, failure to solve the economic crisis, and stopped the social reforms without it really making the opposition stop being antisemitic assholes (Blum was Jewish and criticized for that by the usual people). A radical (basically center, in this case center left) became prime minister, failed to do anything, Blum had a short lived attempt in 38 to solve things, but fail to get the support to pass the necessary reforms.

After which the Radicals took control and Daladier became prime minister in April 1938, until his government would fall following the Winter War, replaced by Paul Reynaud in March 1940 (Daladier would stay in the government as Defense minister). As Daladier walked back on some reforms, the Front Populaire broke apart then.

None of this is represented or even hinted in game in anyway except for maybe the "revoke the Matignon agreement" decision. Presumably, there should be event, focus and decisions that would cause the change of governement or let you keep Blum depending on your actions. I dare to say that managing to make the Front Populaire holds would make far better alt-history than "what if Napoleon 6 became Emperor and decided to AVENGE WATERLOO"?
 
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ZeDango

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The reason is that not much effort was put on France (and most effort actually put was misguided).

Historically Blum's government fell apart in 37, from a combination of disagreement on what to do with Spain, failure to solve the economic crisis, and stopped the social reforms without it really making the opposition stop being antisemitic assholes (Blum was Jewish and criticized for that by the usual people). A radical (basically center, in this case center left) became prime minister, failed to do anything, Blum had a short lived attempt in 38 to solve things, but fail to get the support to pass the necessary reforms.

After which the Radicals took control and Daladier became prime minister in April 1938, until his government would fall following the Winter War, replaced by Paul Reynaud in March 1940 (Daladier would stay in the government as Defense minister). As Daladier walked back on some reforms, the Front Populaire broke apart then.

None of this is represented or even hinted in game in anyway except for maybe the "revoke the Matignon agreement" decision. Presumably, there should be event, focus and decisions that would cause the change of governement or let you keep Blum depending on your actions. I dare to say that managing to make the Front Populaire holds would make far better alt-history than "what if Napoleon 6 became Emperor and decided to AVENGE WATERLOO"?

I mean... Yeah, I agree. The French focus tree, while mildly entertaining, did have very little effort or study it seems. Especially with how banning the respective opposition party just makes everyone disappear.
 
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ambien

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The reason is that not much effort was put on France (and most effort actually put was misguided).

Historically Blum's government fell apart in 37, from a combination of disagreement on what to do with Spain, failure to solve the economic crisis, and stopped the social reforms without it really making the opposition stop being antisemitic assholes (Blum was Jewish and criticized for that by the usual people). A radical (basically center, in this case center left) became prime minister, failed to do anything, Blum had a short lived attempt in 38 to solve things, but fail to get the support to pass the necessary reforms.

After which the Radicals took control and Daladier became prime minister in April 1938, until his government would fall following the Winter War, replaced by Paul Reynaud in March 1940 (Daladier would stay in the government as Defense minister). As Daladier walked back on some reforms, the Front Populaire broke apart then.

None of this is represented or even hinted in game in anyway except for maybe the "revoke the Matignon agreement" decision. Presumably, there should be event, focus and decisions that would cause the change of governement or let you keep Blum depending on your actions. I dare to say that managing to make the Front Populaire holds would make far better alt-history than "what if Napoleon 6 became Emperor and decided to AVENGE WATERLOO"?

I have a suggestion for how to reincorporate Daladier in this thread:


Essentially, there is an in-game decision to revoke the Matignon Agreements. Since the Matignon Agreements were the centerpiece of Blum's social reforms and were in fact revoked by Daladier, it makes sense that revoking them would result in Daladier coming to power in the game.
 
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Bki

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I have a suggestion for how to reincorporate Daladier in this thread:


Essentially, there is an in-game decision to revoke the Matignon Agreements. Since the Matignon Agreements were the centerpiece of Blum's social reforms and were in fact revoked by Daladier, it makes sense that revoking them would result in Daladier coming to power in the game.

Actually, from what I can find, Daladier revoked the 40 hours week, which was not strictly part of the Matignon Agreements but rather part of the Popular Front program (then their victory lead to hope for changes and large strikes which ended up with much more being more being attained). I can't find source on him revoking the rest, and at least in the case of the paid vacations I would be surprised that he did.

As for your idea, I guess it's possible and better than nothing but I would find it unsatisfying and a bit boring.
 
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ambien

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True enough, but in-game I think the general Popular Front program is given the designation "Matignon Agreements". Julian Jackson's book is a pretty good source in English on the Popular Front.

My idea would be easy enough to implement (could realistically be done in the next update), although I concede it is not the most satisfying. I don't think PDX is going to change the focus tree again, so if you want a more satisfying historical experience, you should try the mod called "France Total Rework". I don't know if that mod works with La Resistance.
 
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MobiusTwo

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I pushed to have France's starting leader changed to Pierre Laval in the first place, which is good because it makes the game more historically accurate. Unfortunately, there is no way to put Edouard Daladier in power when he should be. Hopefully they will modify the focus tree in the future to allow for that.
 
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ZeDango

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I pushed to have France's starting leader changed to Pierre Laval in the first place, which is good because it makes the game more historically accurate. Unfortunately, there is no way to put Edouard Daladier in power when he should be. Hopefully they will modify the focus tree in the future to allow for that.
They won't.
 
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Zwirbaum

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The guy that made the spanish tree left paradox, so we wont be getting focus trees that good in the future.

You mean @Bratyn who will be playing in the Chain of Command stream on the PDS/dev team?

Bratyn is still in PDS, he just moved to Imperator team.
 
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True enough, but in-game I think the general Popular Front program is given the designation "Matignon Agreements". Julian Jackson's book is a pretty good source in English on the Popular Front.

My idea would be easy enough to implement (could realistically be done in the next update), although I concede it is not the most satisfying. I don't think PDX is going to change the focus tree again, so if you want a more satisfying historical experience, you should try the mod called "France Total Rework". I don't know if that mod works with La Resistance.


Not me, it would be so forceful in that regard. since the game developers themselves have had to retify their own final trees as a step in the trees of Spain and Portugal due to constant complaints from the community. and I think there is quite a consensus in these complaints about this aspect for the developers to be implementing sooner or later
 
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Indyclone77

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"The reason is that not much effort was put on France (and most effort actually put was misguided)."

You're welcome to your opinions on whether the content is good or not but it's insulting to say "not much effort" was put into the French Tree unless I missed your name in the credits for the DLC and you observed it's development?
 
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"The reason is that not much effort was put on France (and most effort actually put was misguided)."

You're welcome to your opinions on whether the content is good or not but it's insulting to say "not much effort" was put into the French Tree unless I missed your name in the credits for the DLC and you observed it's development?
Why are you personally trying to dispute his claim as a community member?

If the devs DID put effort in, they can get over here and do it themselves.
 
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"The reason is that not much effort was put on France (and most effort actually put was misguided)."

You're welcome to your opinions on whether the content is good or not but it's insulting to say "not much effort" was put into the French Tree unless I missed your name in the credits for the DLC and you observed it's development?

It's even more insulting to assume that a lot of effort was put into France, because that implies that those efforts were intentionally malicious in order to make France gameplay less enjoyable.

You have a super-long focus tree with quite a few filler focus (the industrial tree and the communist subbranch are particularly egregious in that), when the critical moment is late 39-early 40. This mean that most of the "cool things" you can get, by the time you can get them, don't matter.

I understand that France need to be a challenge, and even if I don't like it I can accept the ridiculous number of factory at start and the three research slots as ways to hamper them because the game can't really reflect how France suffered an humiliating loss despite France and Britain combined having at least as much if not more men and modern material in everything except Aircraft compared to Germany.

But the way it is handled is poor. Disjointed government is pretty bad, because almost everything you do before the war cost pp, which mean you're spending 2-3 years doing nothing waiting for it to go away, which mean that basically none of your ministers matter (which is sad because there's a couple of cool unique ones). It is egregiously bad when compared to Spain, for which there's the neat idea of having the buildup to the civil war being handled by decisions. Something similar could have been used for France, to act as a pp sink while still leaving a feeling of choice and doing something to the player.

And the political tensions aren't really represented aside from the "political violence" spirit which just make you wait for taking some national focus (and if you can't wait you can always take another focus to remove it at the cost a few stab. It was a period where L'Action Française was outright calling for Blum to be murdered (and he was violently assaulted in Febuary 1936), and the right-wing press in general was extremely vicious against him. The Front Popular abstained from intervening in Spain partly because of fear of a right wing coup.

Then there's the alt-history path. I will admit I haven't looked much at the Fascist path since I have little interest in it, though at first glance it doesn't seems to be bad. But the Monarchist path, despite being popular, is quite uninspired. The return of the monarchy would deserve more than taking two focus, waiting a year, then taking a third one. The Napoleonic path is just a string of wargoals for vague reasons such as "avenge Waterloo" and go to war with Britain for reasons (also conquering the Benelux and everyone being fine with it). Napoleon 6 was a resistant and war hero, and an interesting figure, he deserves better than simply trying to outdo his great-great-uncle. The Legitimist path meanwhile is lacking in direction, and to a smaller extend so is the Orleanist path past kicking the Fascists asses.

Finally, while I will admit that the gimmick of the industrial tree is kind of neat, it just doesn't work that well for France.
 
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MobiusTwo

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Huh, OP really wasn't kidding. Daladier no longer is the leader of France even in the 1939 start date, as Leon Blum is still in power for some reason. The devs did the right thing making Pierre Laval the leader at the start of 1936, but they really need to change 1939 back to Daladier...
 
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kimidf

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Why are you personally trying to dispute his claim as a community member?

If the devs DID put effort in, they can get over here and do it themselves.

I do not think anyone said they would not make an effort but there are still important absences or failures that I could not explain explained that this should not be the subject of the relevant government changes such as the Daladier-Reynaud cases should appear or the subject is not mentioned French Foreign Legion what could be a spirit
 
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