Why V2 is still better than CKII

[EGaffney]

Hope this is the right forum, because it is fundamentally about what V2 gets right.

Played through 100 years as Belgium. While V2 is not as polished, every outcome made sense given the rules of the game. It felt like an enjoyable recreation of the 19th century without anything bizarre happening to remind me it was a game.

Compare to my last two abortive playthroughs of CKII:
1. One-province count. Build up a duchy over 150 years. Fight local independent de jure vassal with 1500 v 800 men. About 4000 other people rally to his flag. Sorry!
2. One-province count. Plot for 30 years to arrange claim on, and win war for, a county with allies. Ten years later, the game doesn't even tell me that my second county has been given by my liege to an adventurer. Sorry!

What V2 does right is that things make sense at the grand level, even if the details of angry liberals or selling scarce rubber sometimes go wrong. While other Paradox games look more beautiful, they are also prone to random events that feel invidious and that remind you you are in a game, where lots of "cool stuff" has to happen. V2 feels like stepping into a deterministic historical system with a much smaller role for "cool stuff", which is not only fine but is making a statement few other games try to make.

 

[Thrake]

Vicky has its share of pretty boring rules.

Especially if you are not a GP a lot of wonkey stuff happens. I'm playing Persia right now, and when I was still secondary power I was stronger than the Ottomans militarily, but they were GP and not me. Some crisis targetting old cores I held occured, Ottomans backed it and Russia backed me, all going smoothly and everyone gently picking its side when eventually the game tells me that Russia decided to released the nation out of my lands. I understand it can happen as a minor but it's pretty infuriating when in all intents and purpose I'm stronger than the Ottos and could have handled it myself, but instead the AI did in its pants and because I don't have prestige I'm down to being babysitted (I would have been GP long ago if the Ottos didn't ally UK, preventing me to bully them out of GP status).

I do recon that pop mechanic is really great though as it interconnects everything, politics, economy, wars, culture,... everything affect pops with more or less direct consequences.

Compare to my last two abortive playthroughs of CKII:
1. One-province count. Build up a duchy over 150 years. Fight local independent de jure vassal with 1500 v 800 men. About 4000 other people rally to his flag. Sorry!
2. One-province count. Plot for 30 years to arrange claim on, and win war for, a county with allies. Ten years later, the game doesn't even tell me that my second county has been given by my liege to an adventurer. Sorry!

1. Mercenaries, or event troops if tribal (needs prestige or piety to get depending on religion).

 

[aciduzzo]

Though I do not necessarily disagree(Victoria2 is in a way more fun than CK2, due to politics, time period etc), I always start as a lowly count in Eastern Europe and get by if I surpass the early beginnings. Surpassing mainly using marriages. In one game I actually defeated the Horde by cleverly acquiring more and more land from russian principalities. Is waaaay easier in CK2 to make it big than Vic2 as a minor. Probably because you also have more time. In Vic2 if you are a satellite/minor is game over unless you save scum your battles and etc. In CK2 once you have a decent base of descendants, there is no way you can lose with a minimum ammount of being careful.

 

[Alomoes]

Vicky has its share of pretty boring rules.

Especially if you are not a GP a lot of wonkey stuff happens. I'm playing Persia right now, and when I was still secondary power I was stronger than the Ottomans militarily, but they were GP and not me. Some crisis targetting old cores I held occured, Ottomans backed it and Russia backed me, all going smoothly and everyone gently picking its side when eventually the game tells me that Russia decided to released the nation out of my lands. I understand it can happen as a minor but it's pretty infuriating when in all intents and purpose I'm stronger than the Ottos and could have handled it myself, but instead the AI did in its pants and because I don't have prestige I'm down to being babysitted (I would have been GP long ago if the Ottos didn't ally UK, preventing me to bully them out of GP status).

I do recon that pop mechanic is really great though as it interconnects everything, politics, economy, wars, culture,... everything affect pops with more or less direct consequences.



1. Mercenaries, or event troops if tribal (needs prestige or piety to get depending on religion).

Well, that's just a problem with the Vicky II crisis AI, something that was problematic for quite some time. I feel most everything else is pretty good with the game. I still contend that the best era of paradox games is the HoI II era games. They still hold up in my opinion. I do see good things with the new paradox games though. EUIV is pretty good, I still need to play that more.

 

[Thrake]

Well, that's just a problem with the Vicky II crisis AI, something that was problematic for quite some time. I feel most everything else is pretty good with the game. I still contend that the best era of paradox games is the HoI II era games. They still hold up in my opinion. I do see good things with the new paradox games though. EUIV is pretty good, I still need to play that more.

Sure, vicky is interesting, I played it again recently but the fact that such a big feature is flawed is disapointing.

 

[Garuda]

I changed my computer some time ago and since then no longer had Victoria II at my fingertips as I only downloaded Steam products I owned to my new PC; I owned the physical product for Vic 2.

And then over the weekend I purchased Vic 2 on Steam in the Paradox sale. I started playing again just two days ago. Wow, I forgot how good Victoria is. I've played many hours of EU1 through to EU4, Vicky and Ricky, Rome, HoI 1 through to HoI3 (I own HoI4 but have never played it), CKI and CKII and Stellaris, but Victoria 2 is by far the best game Paradox have ever produced (personal opinion of course).

The forlorn wait for a Vicky 3 goes on.............and on.........

 

[Lemony Nelson]

Sure, vicky is interesting, I played it again recently but the fact that such a big feature is flawed is disapointing.

V2 in a nutshell: an ambitious game set in an unique era with interesting game mechanics that unfortunately chokes on its own aspirations.

Plz gib V3 or nationalist revolt

 

[Zenra]

I ...And then over the weekend I purchased Vic 2 on Steam in the Paradox sale. I started playing again just two days ago. Wow, I forgot how good Victoria is. I've played many hours of EU1 through to EU4, Vicky and Ricky, Rome, HoI 1 through to HoI3 (I own HoI4 but have never played it), CKI and CKII and Stellaris, but Victoria 2 is by far the best game Paradox have ever produced (personal opinion of course).
.

This resonated with me because, like Garuda, I purchased V2 on the weekend sale, mostly out of curiosity from all the posts I run across in forums for all the other PDX games I’ve played - CK2, EUI-IV, HOIII-IV...

Vicky II has proven a real surprise to me, and I am sorry i’ve Overlooked this gem of a game for all these years. It’s only been a week but I am clearly hooked. The focus on POPS tying economic, social, political and military aspects all together is fascinating and I am loving it.

I know V2 is an older title and have read about some of the issues people have with aspects of the game here, but I expect this to suck more hours out of me than I can afford, and I am looking forward to it.

And of course, in case one more voice will make any difference, “Paradox, BRING ON VICKY 3!!”

 

[The Gentleman Bastard]

What makes Vicky 2 trump every other strategy game I've played is the strong meta-game coupled with the well designed power-politics. In other games I'm invading a nation X to paint the map red and take all their stuff, because life has no purpose and in the end, we all die alone. In Vicky 2, I'm backing the Polish campaign for independence, because I want to weaken the Russians in Europe so they won't have as much resources to threaten my foothold in India, which in turn is vital to my home industries. I could beat them in a war and gain a buffer-zone, but I want to avoid open conflict, since an influenza's cut down my population and the commies are getting uppity.

In this game war with your adversaries is something you mostly want to avoid, and the geopolitics are played through forming alliances, asserting influence and strategic brinskmanship.

IMO the AI is fairly competent on the GP level at least. In my 500 hours in the game, I don't think I've run into a situation with the crisis AI that I felt was unrealistic. More importantly, I'm almost never taken out of the immersion because the game mechanics restrict me in some unrealistic way, and I never stop to wonder why I should even care, since the POP mechanics and power-politics give you honest to god goals and national interests.

The game could do with a little more espionage, but that's true for all PDX games.

 

[Kovax]

The difference is that Vicky 2 feels like running a country and doing the best you can for your PEOPLE, not taking over land to increase your victory points. Without the concept of multiple "Pops" in each province to represent different ethnicities, religions, classes, etc. (as opposed to one homogeneous population figure - if it even tracks population), most other strategy games feel one-dimensional in how they represent a nation. It's quite viable to play V2 and never fight a war (or only fight defensively, if attacked), and still come out ahead economically, diplomatically, and culturally.

 

[thedarkendstar]

The difference is that Vicky 2 feels like running a country and doing the best you can for your PEOPLE, not taking over land to increase your victory points. Without the concept of multiple "Pops" in each province to represent different ethnicities, religions, classes, etc. (as opposed to one homogeneous population figure - if it even tracks population), most other strategy games feel one-dimensional in how they represent a nation. It's quite viable to play V2 and never fight a war (or only fight defensively, if attacked), and still come out ahead economically, diplomatically, and culturally.

Indeed there are many ways to play Victoria 2 bu there are a couple of constants the strength of a nation comes from basically 3 things Population resources and Literacy 2 oft these things can only be solved through war as population is hard to make increase past its normal growth sav for a few nations.Resources have to be obtained and if you cant sphere someone who has hem then you have to take them by force and literacy is what ensures you can industrialize and stay up to date on technology.

Some nations are more suited for peace Russia for instance already has people and Resources what it needs is literacy so most early games as Russia you avoid war completely and focus on reforming your nation.

Some nations need to Fight wars Prussia base population while alright will be outclassed once its neighbors catch up in tech so it has to form Germany to stay ahead.

A nation like the US has all three just not at the start the US need only fight against two people all game Mexico and a civil war its population will explode as migrants across the world move in its resources are abundant but untapped until those migrants work them and start with good literacy.

And very few nations start with all three The UK starts off with an enormous population and colonies don't count for literacy. Its home Islands are literate and have resources in abundance.

France and Japan also fall into this category Japan has a lot of coal so it can get its industry pretty large till it has to look outward for more with a high base pop and the more literate then the US at the start of the game the almost always end up a great power.

Then there are nations that are missing one or both of these things Sweden is Highly literate but even if it owns all of Scandinavia its population is small and his resources so as well Brazil can get a huge population from Migrants but unlike the US is missed the most key ingredients for industry namely coal.


From these 3 things are nations made strong in Victoria 2 and each nation can go about getting each one in a different way the US focuses on reforming itself being a beacon of immigrants it benefits from a large number of European wars the more war there is the stronger the US is.

Prussia must unite Germany to gain its strength but in doing so make an enemy for the rest of the game France this leads to countless wars where the Franch try to take their land and a bitter rivalry for the rest of the game.

Russia Gains strength through looking inward and reforming itself.

Victoria 2 has so many different ways to play because of these 3 things some nations have high population but need Resources whether this be through colonization war or sphereing offers many opportunities if literacy is what you need you will have to reform your nation and population whether it be through unification of your own culture Prussia colonization war or Immigrants this truly is the blood of the nation.

TLDR:
3 things make a country strong Pops resources literacy. There are many ways of going about getting two of them, unlike literacy where the only way really is education.

 

[doliwaq]

Vic2 is very funny when in your country where live something like 7 milion people you have rebelion of 2 milion communist (but in you full-democratic full-social welfare country they have just 3% of support) and even if you beat one rebelion, another show up immediatly...
No thanks, I prefer CK2.

 

[brifbates]

Vic 2 has its good points but it also has some horrible systems and just plain stupid systems. Magically teleporting goods and the godawful influence system being two primary examples. (I'm also not a fan of the change to how you westernize basically requiring you to be a warmongering crazy).

 

[qwertzuiop]

I think what Victoria 2 shows is that a game with strong basics and messy details is still a really good game overall.

 

[Nelson007]

For Vic2,the battle and rebel design is a disaster
player can ask only for a state not a province in war, that is not comfortable for me either
Also, you can not transfer technology and provinces in negotiations now, that is bad...
I also like the old way to colonize a land in Vic1

but the VIC2's map is perfect, It is better then EU4 and HOI4, it is the best offcial map we have till now