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Mork

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Feb 22, 2003
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Now, now. Play nice. All of you.


Darkrenown can't comment on HOI2 and the trading system in that game (NDA).
If I were Darkrenown I wouldn't comment further, as a slip of the tongue could easily happen in the heat of the moment.


As of now, the game has more in common with HOI than Vicky.
 

boromir

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Oct 3, 2002
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Darkrenown said:
Who cares? I can cheat my ass off and write an AAR about annexing Germany, the USSR ans the USA as Tanu Tuva if you want.

True enough, but that would be because you edited save files, used cheat codes etc, not exploited a game mechanic flaw (the flaw would have had to be extremely huge to give Tanu Tuva the chance to take over the world). The first is unavoidable, the other is not so great game design. As for who cares ... well, remember paratroopers in HOI? they were viewed as an exploit, and there were many complaints about them. Sure, could be banned in MP, house rules made, SP self-restrictions made, and the AI didn't use them ... and yet Paradox went to some effort to make them less of an exploit. Why did they bother? By your reasoning, they should have just brushed it off. So why? Because playing a game where you have to make 10000 house rules to make it work is not fun for all but the biggest fanatics, and is not the mark of a good game.

Darkrenown said:
What are you going to in any of those examples without land trading? Why you you want to take this feature away from players just because some idiots can't stop exploiting it? Should Paradox stop making the save and event files easy to edit so that no one can edit in extra units and cheat? Does the knowlage that other people are cheating affect your own game in any way?

I asked for historic examples. You give me a "what if" example ... ok, so why do you view it as a trade? Romanians buy back Bessarabia from the Germans for 10 gold pieces? Hungary gets Slovakia for 100? This is not a Genghis Khan era game ... if the Germans wanted to give Bessarabia back it would be at heart most likely a political decision, a gesture of good will, in exchange for support, and made because these countries had valid (at least in their own eyes) claims on those territories.

Of course, a capabilty to redraw borders after annexation/puppet or to cede territory a country has claims to is a nice feature (hmm, don't we have that as a diplo option in HOI already), but I would not look at it as your typical trade, which the trade screen implies.

That said - it's true we (non-betas) have no idea how all this is implemented, so its pointless to discuss this further ... Nevertheless, I have a right, like all others on the forum to voice my concerns - as to whether they are valid, well, time will tell. I *do* want HOI2 to succeed and surpass HOI in every respect.

I hope we do get the option for equipment trading of some sort too :D
 

unmerged(12244)

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Dec 2, 2002
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boromir said:
True enough, but that would be because you edited save files, used cheat codes etc, not exploited a game mechanic flaw (the flaw would have had to be extremely huge to give Tanu Tuva the chance to take over the world). The first is unavoidable, the other is not so great game design. As for who cares ... well, remember paratroopers in HOI? they were viewed as an exploit, and there were many complaints about them. Sure, could be banned in MP, house rules made, SP self-restrictions made, and the AI didn't use them ... and yet Paradox went to some effort to make them less of an exploit. Why did they bother? By your reasoning, they should have just brushed it off. So why? Because playing a game where you have to make 10000 house rules to make it work is not fun for all but the biggest fanatics, and is not the mark of a good game.



I asked for historic examples. You give me a "what if" example ... ok, so why do you view it as a trade? Romanians buy back Bessarabia from the Germans for 10 gold pieces? Hungary gets Slovakia for 100? This is not a Genghis Khan era game ... if the Germans wanted to give Bessarabia back it would be at heart most likely a political decision, a gesture of good will, in exchange for support, and made because these countries had valid (at least in their own eyes) claims on those territories.

Of course, a capabilty to redraw borders after annexation/puppet or to cede territory a country has claims to is a nice feature (hmm, don't we have that as a diplo option in HOI already), but I would not look at it as your typical trade, which the trade screen implies.

That said - it's true we (non-betas) have no idea how all this is implemented, so its pointless to discuss this further ... Nevertheless, I have a right, like all others on the forum to voice my concerns - as to whether they are valid, well, time will tell. I *do* want HOI2 to succeed and surpass HOI in every respect.

I hope we do get the option for equipment trading of some sort too :D


Or/and have the "trade province" feature as an on/off feature, thoose who want to play out a game with this can and thoose who dont want it dont have to.This way everybody can have their own little game.
 

Asudulayev

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I do not think that anyone here wants to sell London to Estonia. Rather the conquerer nation, the one that controls the capital, should be allowed to give away provinces that it does not want, to its allies. This is especially true for mega powers like USSR, USA, III Reich.

AI problems can be solved by hardcoding the AI not to do ahistorical deals, ie, Yugoslavia will always be partitioned the way it was.
 
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