Why this game is so expencive in Ukraine?

[Varkin]

I answered. I said that "Ukraine's price is still quite the bargain compared to the majority"

What you are asking has nothing to do with my post, ergo I cannot not give it any further consideration.

What I asking has everything to do with the statement "Ukraine's price is still quite the bargain compared to the majority". Without knowing what percentage of a person in the Ukraine's salary the price is and numerous other economic factors of that economy, vs knowing what the percentage of the price is for any other person living in any other country and those same economic factors you can't know how the price compares to the majority. If the cost in the Ukraine is 2% of a person living in the Ukraine's average annual salary and in Greece it is .001% of the annual average annual salary, it is certainly not a bargain compared to the Greece no matter how much lower the currency value seems when companred. Without that data you can't say if it is a bargain compared to the majority.

 

[Varkin]

Average monthly salary in Ukraine was 7828UAH in February this year, the game costs 479UAH - 6.11%
Average UK salary in January was £2233 with the game costing £34.99 (highest apparently according to the list above) which equates to 1.56%
Average US salary (based on 4th quarter 2017) was $3713.66, with the game costing $39.99 - 1.07%

So not really a bargain when you put it into context.
I couldn't find reliable figures for Greece

Thank you TaurianMerc the actual data is much better than my example data.

 

[Abydos_1]

You sir are a true gentleman, and I can't express in mere type how much respect I have for you right now!
I only wish there were more people like you in the world (and that I had the money to do likewise)

Well, thank you kind sir

 

[The Blade of Light]

Average monthly salary in Ukraine was 7828UAH in February this year, the game costs 479UAH - 6.11%
Average UK salary in January was £2233 with the game costing £34.99 (highest apparently according to the list above) which equates to 1.56%
Average US salary (based on 4th quarter 2017) was $3713.66, with the game costing $39.99 - 1.07%

So not really a bargain when you put it into context.
I couldn't find reliable figures for Greece

Yeah, that is the "magic" of Greece. Reliable figures are rare.

Well, I know that at 40 euros the game was 8% of my monthly salary (500 euro) and that the cost of living in Greece is almost double of that of Ukraine.

What I asking has everything to do with the statement "Ukraine's price is still quite the bargain compared to the majority". Without knowing what percentage of a person in the Ukraine's salary the price is and numerous other economic factors of that economy, vs knowing what the percentage of the price is for any other person living in any other country and those same economic factors you can't know how the price compares to the majority. If the cost in the Ukraine is 2% of a person living in the Ukraine's average annual salary and in Greece it is .001% of the annual average annual salary, it is certainly not a bargain compared to the Greece no matter how much lower the currency value seems when companred. Without that data you can't say if it is a bargain compared to the majority.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Athens
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Kiev?displayCurrency=EUR

So, considering that Greece has more than 20% unemployment rate and at every job at the moment your boss tells you "hey, we will reduce your salary or you can forget about getting paid overtime or I'll just find someone else in need of a job. The streets are full of unemployed people." you can imagine where the REAL average salary sits (around 720 euros as that link said is a good average, but a person that would want to ever buy Battletech sits at a lower threshold, but let us be gracious and ignore all that for now).

Considering the average of the same link for Ukraine (around 300 euros) then we have this situation.
Greece has 720/300 = 2.4 times larger average salaries.
But Greece has 2 or 3 or even 4 times larger prices compared with Ukraine, in every day products or services.
Eggs .?. 2.83 € Athens / 0.91 € Kiev = 3 times more
Milk .?. 1.17 € Athens / 0.66 € Kiev = 2 times more
Potatoes .?. 0.76 € Athens / 0.29 € Kiev = 2 times more
Beef .?. 9.17 € Athens / 3.99 € Kiev = 2,3 times more
Pack of Cigarettes(same brand) .?. 4:50 € Athens / 1 € Kiev = 4.5 times more

and the winner .?. Transportation :
One-way Ticket (Local Transport) .?. 1.40 € Athens / 0.16 € Kiev = 8.75 times more

it costs you EIGHT point seventy five TIMES MORE to get to work or anywhere else in that monstrocity that we have for a capital.

Now, are you done nitpicking over obvious things and just accept that a -53.95% reduction in the price is still quite the bargain compared to the majority
and that the price is not set only due to economical reasons or do we need to start wondering why on earth places like Norway have a discount .?.

Even without ANY comparisons, when you get a -53.95% reduction in the price the statement that it is "quite the bargain compared to the majority" (that gets no discount) should have been self-evident.

And now I expect the mods to crash on my post like a ton of bricks. I tried to avoid it, but there you have it.

 

[Ciabhan]

To be fair he said his income is around 1400 UAH per month. That's a fairly common income range in Ukraine. That's around $50USD. I make that in almost exactly an hour and a half. I can see his point if you're basing the prices off a certain level of affordability in the local economy.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

Keep in mind, in paradox’s perfect world they would sell us everything at exactly the price we would pay for it individually, this can’t be done practically or legally (usually) so you have to wait for sales.

If you are a small market that they don’t have local familiarity with, your pricing and localization will probably get less attention because staff time probably costs more than the tweaking is worth.

Even the USA comparison with an ‘average’ is very misleading. Cost of living and salary vary a lot, so this price can easily bite into their disposable income. In CA Bay Area you will often be paying rent higher than $2k per month, so the game doesn’t feel like nearly as much.

 

[The Blade of Light]

To be fair he said his income is around 1400 UAH per month. That's a fairly common income range in Ukraine. That's around $50USD. I make that in almost exactly an hour and a half. I can see his point if you're basing the prices off a certain level of affordability in the local economy.

You are right and I didn't notice that. For that, I apologize.

I also mentioned that I am below the average in my country, as well. More often than not people tend to view things according to the average, but the truth is that the average is usually reached by few people making quite a lot of money and a lot of people making quite a few money. That is the situation here, as well and, I'd wager, in most places in the world.

My point is simple and not "bashing" anyone or any economy. I simply said that 54% off is a bargain. It is a sad fact of life that even though we complain about our lot in life, there are always worse places or places in similar troubles and a lot of those got no discount at all and other places that have no monetary issues as countries (like Norway or Kuwait or Singapore that I already mentioned) that DID get discounts.

So, the price is not ONLY connected with the "level of affordability in the local economy". It seems like a reasonable factor, but the facts decree that it is not the only one.

 

[Varkin]

Yeah, that is the "magic" of Greece. Reliable figures are rare.

Well, I know that at 40 euros the game was 8% of my monthly salary (500 euro) and that the cost of living in Greece is almost double of that of Ukraine.



https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Athens
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Kiev?displayCurrency=EUR

So, considering that Greece has more than 20% unemployment rate and at every job at the moment your boss tells you "hey, we will reduce your salary or you can forget about getting paid overtime or I'll just find someone else in need of a job. The streets are full of unemployed people." you can imagine where the REAL average salary sits (around 720 euros as that link said is a good average, but a person that would want to ever buy Battletech sits at a lower threshold, but let us be gracious and ignore all that for now).

Considering the average of the same link for Ukraine (around 300 euros) then we have this situation.
Greece has 720/300 = 2.4 times larger average salaries.
But Greece has 2 or 3 or even 4 times larger prices compared with Ukraine, in every day products or services.
Eggs .?. 2.83 € Athens / 0.91 € Kiev = 3 times more
Milk .?. 1.17 € Athens / 0.66 € Kiev = 2 times more
Potatoes .?. 0.76 € Athens / 0.29 € Kiev = 2 times more
Beef .?. 9.17 € Athens / 3.99 € Kiev = 2,3 times more
Pack of Cigarettes(same brand) .?. 4:50 € Athens / 1 € Kiev = 4.5 times more

and the winner .?. Transportation :
One-way Ticket (Local Transport) .?. 1.40 € Athens / 0.16 € Kiev = 8.75 times more

it costs you EIGHT point seventy five TIMES MORE to get to work or anywhere else in that monstrocity that we have for a capital.

This is interesting but has nothing to do with the question and not relevant unless Greece is "the majority". (which they are not I can back this up with a huge list of population and sales numbers if you would like)

Now, are you done nitpicking over obvious things and just accept that a -53.95% reduction in the price is still quite the bargain compared to the majority
and that the price is not set only due to economical reasons or do we need to start wondering why on earth places like Norway have a discount .?.

Even without ANY comparisons, when you get a -53.95% reduction in the price the statement that it is "quite the bargain compared to the majority" (that gets no discount) should have been self-evident.

And now I expect the mods to crash on my post like a ton of bricks. I tried to avoid it, but there you have it.

Clearly there is either a language barrier, you have no idea how international economics works, you are not understanding the question, or you are willfully deflecting. I am not nit picking. You made a simple statement, and how you stated it was in a factual way. I asked how you could know that without knowing all the economic factors involved in that country as well as all the other country to be able to tell if it was a bargain. You said:

This is the pricelist apparently :

https://steamdb.info/sub/175167/

and Russia has the cheapest one. Ukraine's price is still quite the bargain compared to the majority.

Nothing you said supported it with facts in any way. You did talk about Greece enconomic situation but unless Greece is "the majority" (this is clearly not the case they are but a tiny fraction of the majority) then comparing the economy to the Ukraine does not validate the state of "compared to the majority". Just because the price is lower as compared to other places does not make it a bargain compared the the majority without knowing the value of that specific amount of money in that specific economy as it compares to the same thing the majority of economies.

I would make an educated guess that the US and the UK together make up a much larger portion of "the majority" than Greece does if we look at the figures that TaurianMerc provided we can see that it is unlikely that the "Ukraine's price is still quite the bargain compared to the majority." Now had you made the statement of Ukraine's price is still quite the bargain compared to Greece, sure it looks like that may be the case. But Greece is not the majority so........

 

[TaurianMerc]

Now, are you done nitpicking over obvious things and just accept that a -53.95% reduction in the price is still quite the bargain compared to the majority

I was going to walk away from this discussion after my last post, but this raised my hackles a bit.
Quite simply, no, i will not accept that. Firstly i don't accept that they get "a discount" the -53.95% is just what they pay compared to the US$ price. It is not a discount, not a reduction per se, it is all based on the economics of the currency it is translated into.

I simply said that 54% off is a bargain. It is a sad fact of life that even though we complain about our lot in life, there are always worse places or places in similar troubles and a lot of those got no discount at all and other places that have no monetary issues as countries (like Norway or Kuwait or Singapore that I already mentioned) that DID get discounts.

Again this is not a discount. This is not about which countries currently experience economic troubles. This is plainly and simply about the relative strengths of the economy.
The GB£ is usually quite a strong currency, hence we pay more than the base price, irrespective of what the modal average wage is. Other currencies are a lot weaker and the price in those works out lower.
Unfortunately Greece as country is experiencing economic difficulties, however the Euro as a currency has some pretty hefty clout and is usually above the dollar.

I am, also, more than willing to carry on the list I started above for all of the other countries on the steam price list, just so we can test your assertion that the Ukraine gets a better deal than most

Even the USA comparison with an ‘average’ is very misleading. Cost of living and salary vary a lot, so this price can easily bite into their disposable income. In CA Bay Area you will often be paying rent higher than $2k per month, so the game doesn’t feel like nearly as much.

This is the same in almost every country, some areas are more desirable to live in so prices are higher.
I used to live in a 2 bed flat in London (where I grew up) and the rent was ~£800/month (and that was pretty low it's much higher in that area now), we moved out of London when our first son came along (not too far, about 40km) and bought a 3 bed house with the mortgage payments costing £650/month

 

[Daneiel Adder]

Guys don't feed the troll . It was explained so many times , but he refuse to understand it .
Moderators can lock that topic and to be done with that topic.

 

[ElvenNeko]

We have been told by HBS that they are working with battletech fans for localisation in their own countries, so hopefully you should get a pretty decent translation.

That's great news. I, personally, don't have a bit problem with playing on english, but i know some people who would understand a little. Having a good translation would mean a lot to them.

Average monthly salary in Ukraine was 7828UAH in February this year

Haha, i wish i know anyone who earns that much) My mother has lifetime expirience, working at government job, and still earns around 4k. That's A LOT, by the way. My friend who works in 24h shifts (1 full day and night on duty, and another day resting) earns 2k.
You know how they count that statistic... one guy have no legs, two guys have them. In statistics all man missing one leg.

I have a friend from Russia who bought me games before they forbid to gift them if they have price differente. So, in Moscow real avg income starts at 40000. And game costs 400 for them...But, in the other hand - Russia are big. In small towns and villages people can earn 12000 or even less. There is an abyss between capital + big cities and other parts of the country, and in Ukraine it's even worse, with all those war thing going on. How it's fair to judge everyone by average income in this situation?

But tell you what ElvenNeko, as a onetime offer, I'll give you the game. PM me with your SteamTag or GoGTag (In case of GoG, that would also include email I think), and I'll gift you a pre-order!

Thanks a lot for the offer, i am just not sure if you can for the reasons listed above - vavle forbid gifting games if recepient has a different price, or i would already buy it from my russian friend. That's how i bought almost all my steam games at reasonable price before they forbit to do that. But why the hell not? I certainly will pm you that, and if you will be unable to do that - we can try gog. And if gog will have the same restriction... well, i still can farm pubg crates nonstop for next few months and get the money i am missing.

Also, i can pay you back a bit - with those crates to sell in steam, or simply with buying something from steam market on money i will earn from crates.

 

[Abydos_1]

Thanks a lot for the offer, i am just not sure if you can for the reasons listed above - vavle forbid gifting games if recepient has a different price, or i would already buy it from my russian friend. That's how i bought almost all my steam games at reasonable price before they forbit to do that. But why the hell not? I certainly will pm you that, and if you will be unable to do that - we can try gog. And if gog will have the same restriction... well, i still can farm pubg crates nonstop for next few months and get the money i am missing.

Also, i can pay you back a bit - with those crates to sell in steam, or simply with buying something from steam market on money i will earn from crates.

No payment back is needed mate. It's a gift, not a two-way transaction

As for the payment difference, there should be no problem, since the game will be bought in my currency, which is more than you would have to pay (a bit over the double or so) Otherwise we try GoG!

Replied to your PM as well.

Cheers

 

[ElvenNeko]

Isn't double a bit too much? Like. way too much? There is no way to order a post-soviet regional copy as a gift somehow?

Well, than i can offer one more thing. I have a decent, really decent mech warrior online account that i am trying to sell for some amount of time, but without result. Played that game for a long time and got some pretty good stuff there, 50-100 dollars worth for sure, but nothing bought with real currency - just lots of event prizes and farmed stuff. Can gift you that if you play that game, it's very unlikely i will ever find buyer for it anyway.

 

[Abydos_1]

Isn't double a bit too much? Like. way too much? There is no way to order a post-soviet regional copy as a gift somehow?

Well, than i can offer one more thing. I have a decent, really decent mech warrior online account that i am trying to sell for some amount of time, but without result. Played that game for a long time and got some pretty good stuff there, 50-100 dollars worth for sure, but nothing bought with real currency - just lots of event prizes and farmed stuff. Can gift you that if you play that game, it's very unlikely i will ever find buyer for it anyway.

Hehe, no thanks mate. You hold on to that

I make some 16000dkk after taxes... That's some 69300UAH a month. I can afford to gift you the game, and I'll accept no payment in return

 

[ElvenNeko]

So i have the game already, and with pre-order bonus, and for that miracle i have Abydos_1 to thank! Since he helped to bring another mercinary into this galaxy - mercenary won't forget him when he will capture the trone. If you ever change your mind regarding my part - just write. Good luck to you, and may your systems never overheat.

I would close the thread already, but it's not really about me. Some people are in even worse situation, like the guy from Bulgeria who have to pay 38 euros, 4x as much when they are sure not rich country also. So i will leave it open in hope that Paradox, or whoever is responcible for the prices will notice and at least think about it.

 

[Abydos_1]

. Good luck to you, and may your systems never overheat.

Hehe, likewise mate

Cheers!

 

[grumbold]

Average income never really comes into these sorts of calculations. It's more down to the disposable income of the subset of population who own gaming devices and are likely to buy at least a few full priced titles a year, factored against the cost of localisation (if any) and the price of competing products.

 

[The Blade of Light]

Again this is not a discount. This is not about which countries currently experience economic troubles. This is plainly and simply about the relative strengths of the economy.
The GB£ is usually quite a strong currency, hence we pay more than the base price, irrespective of what the modal average wage is. Other currencies are a lot weaker and the price in those works out lower.

So, you mean to tell us that Russia gets the lowest price, because Russian economy and currency is the weakest in the world .?.
Really .?.

By your reasoning how do you explain then that while India and Brazil, arguably in the top 10 economies in the world, get a lower price as well .?.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

Turkey and Mexico also in the top 20, also get a lower price (since you do not like the word "discount").

Unfortunately Greece as country is experiencing economic difficulties, however the Euro as a currency has some pretty hefty clout and is usually above the dollar.

Yes, I said repeatedly that I understand that.

I am, also, more than willing to carry on the list I started above for all of the other countries on the steam price list, just so we can test your assertion that the Ukraine gets a better deal than most

Good, explain to us why Norway, Kuwait and Singapore get a smaller price then, since everyone seems to ignore that part of my posts again and again.

Even if you go "per capita" Singapore is just below Luxemburg in the list :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

FOURTH BEST in the world ... they still get 35% lower price though.
Kuwait and Norway are 6th and 7th ... they still get a lower price.

I will say it again, I find it perfectly reasonable to have lower prices for different countries and I am not complaining about the price I paid. My only "sin" was calling a discount "a pretty good bargain". How much lower than 54% off would you people have liked that price to be to accept it as a good bargain, I wonder.

Sure, Ukraine didn't get the "best deal", but it got a pretty good bargain. Ukraine is 114th on that GDP per capita list, ABOVE 70+ countries that did NOT get a lower price. If you all so dislike facts, that is not my problem.

 

[TaurianMerc]

Russian average wage 39800RUB, game 725RUB = 1.82% so in line with what the UK and US are paying

I am formally, and politely, informing you that I shall no longer discuss this subject with you until you accept these points:
1)The cost of the game in the Ukraine is 6.11% the national average monthly wage.
2)Russia, the US and the UK are paying 1-2% of the national average monthly wage.
3)Paying 6% of your wage is not a better bargain than 2%

Whether or not the average wage reflects what most people are earning is irrelevant in this context, the use of the national average stands for the fact of making a comparison - in fact, if the modal average in the Ukraine is that much lower then they are spending an even larger percentage of their money on this game.
As I've said, I understand it can be hard when your country is having economic difficulties but has no control over the currency. But that is not a reason to start making up baseless "facts" about "bargain discounts" when few people are getting a discount.

 

[emmasterakia]

Hehe, likewise mate

Cheers!

This is awesome guys.