Why the UK is bad at war.

[SirNat]

Indeed I'd suggest this is correct. On the one hand you have the popular idea that the British simply suck at land warfare, which (like most such myths) is generally unjustified. On the other, even the British themselves think this way. Even some in the officer corps seemed to consider amateurism and simply 'having a bash' the way to go.

I disagree that the British think that they have been an underwhelming at war and in general their performance in warfare. I believe the difference is that we've always shown a degree more humility than our neighbours both East and West.
Whilst Europeans have a tendency to be brash and forthright about their triumphs and glories, Brits in contrast take a more understated approach. Just compare the architectural and cultural styles of the Sun King, The Soviet Union, The Nazis, Bonapartist France vs even Britain at the height of our empire. Take a stroll through the streets and parks of any European city and you will quickly notice that a great many are named after greatly individuals native to that land. Eternally etched into the addresses and consciousnesses of those who dwell there.

Prima facie Brits will always be more modest regarding our successes and this can lead to some (as illustrated by this thread) to think that we've been weak at warfare. Dig deeper though and it becomes very apparent that at least within British consciousness that we always thought that we've had a steely resolve that has always pulled us through. Even the cited example of the Charge of the Light Brigade is remembered more for the remarkable bravery of the men on that fateful day. Consider "We merry few", 'Zulu', Richard Sharpe, the Battle of Britain, The SAS. If you ask most kids on the street who they think are the best forces in the world are, most will respond that we are.

We haven't lost a major war since 1783. You would struggle to argue that Britain has underperformed militarily given our sterling record.

 

[DarthJF]

Very few, if any, nations can hope to match the British record for winning wars, so it's very wrong to say they're bad at it.

People just tend to focus more on the few notable defeats and various tactical blunders by individual commanders. In a sense Britain is the anti-Germany. They haven't tended to win brilliant tactical victories on the field, but have consistently been good at methodically stacking the odds in their favour, so that they win the war even if they lose a few battles while doing it.

 

[Geriander]

Considering all the places invaded by the British, the list of defeats in this thread is very low.

 

[Fishman786]

Considering all the places invaded by the British, the list of defeats in this thread is very low.

Britain has had quite a few close shaves though, wars that they won but not by the kind of margin that they really should have. Southeast Asia during the second world war for instance was a catastrophe for Britain.

 

[Sabotage13]

I'm eagerly awaiting the thread argueing that Germany is bad at war.

 

[Eusebio]

I disagree that the British think that they have been an underwhelming at war and in general their performance in warfare. I believe the difference is that we've always shown a degree more humility than our neighbours both East and West.
Whilst Europeans have a tendency to be brash and forthright about their triumphs and glories, Brits in contrast take a more understated approach. Just compare the architectural and cultural styles of the Sun King, The Soviet Union, The Nazis, Bonapartist France vs even Britain at the height of our empire. Take a stroll through the streets and parks of any European city and you will quickly notice that a great many are named after greatly individuals native to that land. Eternally etched into the addresses and consciousnesses of those who dwell there.

Prima facie Brits will always be more modest regarding our successes and this can lead to some (as illustrated by this thread) to think that we've been weak at warfare. Dig deeper though and it becomes very apparent that at least within British consciousness that we always thought that we've had a steely resolve that has always pulled us through. Even the cited example of the Charge of the Light Brigade is remembered more for the remarkable bravery of the men on that fateful day. Consider "We merry few", 'Zulu', Richard Sharpe, the Battle of Britain, The SAS. If you ask most kids on the street who they think are the best forces in the world are, most will respond that we are.

We haven't lost a major war since 1783. You would struggle to argue that Britain has underperformed militarily given our sterling record.

Your post was indeed very humble about how fantastic we Britons are at everything.

 

[thedarkendstar]

British Humility just looks at the name of British ships. 9 ships have been named HMS Conqueror.

 

[Canadian_95_RTS]

Considering all the places invaded by the British, the list of defeats in this thread is very low.

Note that the countries in red are almost universally not British.

 

[The-Doc]

British Humility just looks at the name of British ships. 9 ships have been named HMS Conqueror.

Presumably after William I?

 

[thedarkendstar]

Presumably after William I?

If that's the case they would just name it the whole name like Prince of Wales.

 

[DoomBunny]

I'm eagerly awaiting the thread argueing that Germany is bad at war.

Well, it's never won one...

British Humility just looks at the name of British ships. 9 ships have been named HMS Conqueror.

Would you prefer HMS Squiddle-Squaff, HMS Morris the Cat, or HMS Lazytown?

 

[Culise]

Would you prefer HMS Squiddle-Squaff, HMS Morris the Cat, or HMS Lazytown?

Sure, but I personally prefer GSV Zero Gravitas, GSV Experiencing A Significant Gravitas Shortfall, and GCU Very Little Gravitas Indeed.

 

[henzington]

Well, it's never won one...



Would you prefer HMS Squiddle-Squaff, HMS Morris the Cat, or HMS Lazytown?

The Franco Prussian war but otherwise Germany hasn't won many wars.

 

[Gil galad]

I disagree that the British think that they have been an underwhelming at war and in general their performance in warfare. I believe the difference is that we've always shown a degree more humility than our neighbours both East and West.
Whilst Europeans have a tendency to be brash and forthright about their triumphs and glories, Brits in contrast take a more understated approach. Just compare the architectural and cultural styles of the Sun King, The Soviet Union, The Nazis, Bonapartist France vs even Britain at the height of our empire. Take a stroll through the streets and parks of any European city and you will quickly notice that a great many are named after greatly individuals native to that land. Eternally etched into the addresses and consciousnesses of those who dwell there.

Prima facie Brits will always be more modest regarding our successes and this can lead to some (as illustrated by this thread) to think that we've been weak at warfare. Dig deeper though and it becomes very apparent that at least within British consciousness that we always thought that we've had a steely resolve that has always pulled us through. Even the cited example of the Charge of the Light Brigade is remembered more for the remarkable bravery of the men on that fateful day. Consider "We merry few", 'Zulu', Richard Sharpe, the Battle of Britain, The SAS. If you ask most kids on the street who they think are the best forces in the world are, most will respond that we are.

We haven't lost a major war since 1783. You would struggle to argue that Britain has underperformed militarily given our sterling record.

There is also the famous cult of the amateur which pervades British military history. Best summarised by Shakespeare:

Let me speak proudly: tell the constable
We are but warriors for the working day

 

[Mike_GH]

Well

Just to make this clear, this isn't a hate post, this is just to even things out in a rival-like and friendly way, similar to a post I saw of why the US is bad at war too.

Let me list a few wars where the UK has lost to small or weak countries.

1. The first Boer war.

The Boers were Dutch settlers in southern Africa, as they were barely even equipped to fight a superpower like Britain, a Boer state named Transvaal wrecked Britain in the first Boer war through guerrilla tactics, this helped them survive until the early 1900's when the second Boer war started and Transvaal fell due to a superior number of British soldiers.

2.The Scottish wars of Independence.

Sure these wars weren't as dramatic as the film Braveheart made them out to be, but the English (or British) still lost to a very weak army, not much to say here.

3. American Revolution

The reason why the British lost this war was because they were weakened by guerrilla tactics and small skirmishes that happened before and after full-fledged battles against the British.

They also neglected the fact that the US acted smart and made allies with Spain and France, which the British use as an insult to call us weak.

Sure old Georgie lost a lot of battles, but he at least did some big damage to the redcoats.

4. Easter Risings

I know, they were pushing them back, but as I said before, guerrilla tactics and a good commander win the day, or make a stalemate that forces the British to lose.

Now hopefully the mods won't get mad at me for posting this, if they do, then whatever, it was a good idea in my head.

Well, the one war the UK lost that you did not mention was the Irish War of Independence. This one is important because it shows that however strong the UK was militarily it could not fight, let alone win, a war in which it lacked any ethical conviction and did not have the support of the international community. The Irish were unbeatable because they had the moral high ground and were acting in accordance with the democratic will of the Irish people. Even Bernard (Monty) Montgomery at the time expressed the opinion that the British should leave Ireland. Military might is no good without the moral authority to use it.

 

[Geriander]

Since the mid 18th century the UK has mostly fought on the side of a larger alliance against smaller ones (Napoleonic Wars, Crimean War, WW1, WW2), against weaker states (the USA, Boers) or against backward nations (Opium wars, colonial wars, etc). While the UK has almost always won it did often take a surprising amount of time and plenty of setbacks.

Germany since its unification did the opposite. In both World Wars they challanged alliances that had way more resources and performed surprisingly well before being worn down.

 

[thedarkendstar]

Well, it's never won one...



Would you prefer HMS Squiddle-Squaff, HMS Morris the Cat, or HMS Lazytown?

No, but compare that to what we name our Ships USS Missouri basically we mostly name our ships after land we own

 

[DoomBunny]

No, but compare that to what we name our Ships USS Missouri basically we mostly name our ships after land we own

Something like HMS Belfast, HMS Australia, HMS Suffolk?

 

[henzington]

Or presidents

 

[thedarkendstar]

Something like HMS Belfast, HMS Australia, HMS Suffolk?

Something like that but do you really own Australia anymore