Why the player can use capitalists money but he cannot use other POPs money too?

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Alfred Dreyfus

Second Lieutenant
May 27, 2021
191
1.641
Outside of taxation, I mean.

And if the player is able to control and use POPs money, what's the point in collecting taxes anyway?

I think this whole "control for free your capitalists money" design choice is a big flaw. Fun and interesting aspect of Vic2 is how taxation is the tool the player has to use in order to extract and use POPs money.
 
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One explanation could be that the player represents ruling elites of a country if it would work for you. We don’t know much about how investment pools work, and I hope it will not just be just all savings, so inducing pops to invest will be a task similar to taxation but through other methods. Moreover it may well be that all pops may contribute to the pool with some of their savings, representing bank deposits.
 
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What makes you think the player can’t? From what we’ve heard, all pops’ savings go into the Investment Pool. And I think that’s what you’re referring to.

ETA: I’ve been pointed to the leak of an early playtest that says it’s capitalists and sometimes aristocrats. Thanks to everyone who informed me!
 
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I just dont buy the argument that you play as the "spirit of the nation".

Next step is people arguing over what is the "spirit of the nation" philosophic notion and what should be its boundaries in game mechanics.

"spirit of the nation" is in itself a wild abstraction and a nation isnt always equivalent to a political modern state boundaries.

Its alright for them to want to give us an abstract mechanic for the sake of simplification and/or player agency(if thats the objective), i just dont buy the justification of it being another abstraction.

But if the general gameplay is improved, hey, i'm all for it.
 
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Why the player can use capitalists money but he cannot use other POPs money too?

Congratulations, you've invented stock exchange and joint-stock company. It's actually a good idea to allow POPs like shopkeepers to invest their money through investment pool. I'm only afraid, that the game right now doesn't allow such complicated profit sharing mechanisms (but it seems viable)
 
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You can use 'capitalist money' to build a dreadnought materials factory, though.
The difference would be between a capitalist owning an arms factory and a capitalist directly funding the navy.

I really really hope not, oh my god.
Why not? capitalists might be the biggest investors, but they won't be the only investors. (I don't know if what was said is true or not but I wouldn't mind either way)
 
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Why not? capitalists might be the biggest investors, but they won't be the only investors. (I don't know if what was said is true or not but I wouldn't mind either way)
Because then the player is a god that controls literally everything insides his country. The fun is in the challenge of using the limited tools you have to steer your country, and maybe try to expand your power by imposing more government intervention in your society.

Player controlling the countries POPs is a bad idea. This is not what Victoria should be about. This is not The Sims.
 
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What makes you think the player can’t? From what we’ve heard, all pops’ savings go into the Investment Pool. And I think that’s what you’re referring to.
Where did you read that? From what I've heard only capitalists and aristocrats contribute to the investment pool depending on your economic system.

You can use 'capitalist money' to build a dreadnought materials factory, though.
I don't think this has to be too much of an issue though. Sure, the player could build say a shipyard (or whatever factory might produce dreadnought materials), but unless the production of those materials is actually profitable the shipyard would be forced to close and the player wouldn't get the dreadnought materials they needed. If the shipyard on the other hand is profitable, letting the player build one doesn't seem too unreasonable as your capitalists would likely do the same if they were the ones spending investment pool money. Not only that, but the player is incentivized to build the most profitable factories under capitalism as it's their only source of money to use for more factories. So building factories that are against the interests of your capitalists is already punished in a sense.
 
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Because then the player is a god that controls literally everything insides his country. The fun is in the challenge of using the limited tools you have to steer your country, and maybe try to expand your power by imposing more government intervention in your society.

Player controlling the countries POPs is a bad idea. This is not what Victoria should be about. This is not The Sims.
Not what I was saying, I'm ambivalent about the investment pool, at least until we hear more.

I was asking why shouldn't any pop contribute to the investment pool if they are wealthy enough to save? - As I said, I haven't read if this is the case or not.
 
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I don't think this has to be too much of an issue though. Sure, the player could build say a shipyard (or whatever factory might produce dreadnought materials), but unless the production of those materials is actually profitable the shipyard would be forced to close and the player wouldn't get the dreadnought materials they needed. If the shipyard on the other hand is profitable, letting the player build one doesn't seem too unreasonable as your capitalists would likely do the same if they were the ones spending investment pool money. Not only that, but the player is incentivized to build the most profitable factories under capitalism as it's their only source of money to use for more factories. So building factories that are against the interests of your capitalists is already punished in a sense.
If the player wants to build a shipyard, he should build a state shipyard with the states budget he gets from taxes (being taxation its own challenge in the game, unlike just magically using POPs money that doesn't imply any challenge at all).

If you can just grab POPs money there is no challenge. Game is going to be so easy. Just a "click button to get X" game with no economic simulation at all. /godmode on
 
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If the player wants to build a shipyard, he should build a state shipyard with the states budget he gets from taxes (being taxation its own challenge in the game, unlike just magically using POPs money that doesn't imply any challenge at all).

If you can just grab POPs money there is no challenge. Game is going to be so easy. Just a "click button to get X" game with no economic simulation at all. /godmode on
But you can't just grab POPs money without challenge. If you build factories that your POPs wouldn't build themselves (unprofitable factories that only benefit the player that is) then eventually there won't be any POP money left to build what you want. You need to make sure the investment decisions you make takes POP interests into consideration if you don't want your capitalist economy to fail. It isn't just a "click button to get X" game, you won't get X if your investments go against POP interests (building profitable factories that make them wealthier).
 
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If you build factories that your POPs wouldn't build themselves (unprofitable factories that only benefit the player that is)
This is the problem. The player shouldn't be able to do this to start with.

I'm not against player intervention in some other way. But it needs to be a more indirect intervention, not something as direct as I grab untaxed private money to build my industry. You have your government tools for that (taxation).
 
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I'm expressing my concerns. Do you want me to just say everything looks perfect or what.

Devs need constructive feedback, not just brainless hype.
It's not constructive if you're just making up bullshit. Having the player direct capitalist POP investment does not mean there is no economic simulation in the game. Come on, man.
 
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