Why the new job system -feels- wrong

[Orkonkel]

So. Despite having a more intrinsicate and interesting economy system, there is just a bad feeling in you when you upgrade an alloy factory and suddenly five pops move from resource generation to resource consumption: it feels like I am getting punished for developing my world. In a game, you want your players to feel rewarded when expanding, when advancing your empire, but you made a system that makes you feel like 'o shit my economy is crap becaue I tried expanding it', and it's poor psychological design. Compare to Europa Universalis or Crusader Kings: build a building, you now gain more ducats/gold each month.

Suggestion: Population should not be automatically promoted to higher strata. Available higher job strata should be filled when there are unemployed workers on your planet, or through an easy to access button that promotes a pop for you- Could even have two buttons, one for at each building interface to employ a lower strata pop into it, and one general button that is just 'fill all your higher strata jobs with workers' or something such - this could even be ticked to automatically fill jobs like the current system does.

Taking away control from the player is a bad thing. Making the player feel punished for building a building or upgrading a building is a bad thing. The system is good, the implementation is not the best from a gameplay experience point of view.

 

[nfmarque]

The new system prevents mindless clicking, you only upgrade if you need the resource and can support it.

 

[WhapXI]

Making the player feel punished for building a building or upgrading a building is a bad thing.

If your economy is tanking because you build things you can't afford to staff or operate, have you considered perhaps not building those things?

 

[Tim_Ward]

Alternative: don't add more specialist jobs on planets where there are workers you can't afford to lose. Clerks are good for this. No one's going to miss a couple of clerks.

Alternative: do do that, and make up the shortfall with the market while you wait for pop growth to replace your workers

If the point of the new system is to manage your economy, then you have to be able to mess up somehow or else it turns into, as @nfmarque says, mindless clicking.

The market gives you something to fall back on if you mess up, but still punishes you because it's inefficient to rely on the market.

 

[Eled the Worm Tamer]

having a system that does not bend to the every whim of the player is not punishment in economics any more than it is in war.

The system has rules, they are predictable (I personally think there should be lag going either way, and it should take around 4 years to go up a strata repreesnting training time) Your failure however, to work meaningfully within those rules is not a failure of the game any more than being invaded because you forgot to do anything with your fleet past the 3 starter ships is one.

As for the upgrade situation you have 2 choices, either live within your means and not upgrade all the things! (That was essentuallythe old set up in terms of minerals or energy) or use the market.

 

[LockdownX7]

With current game mechanics, upgrading buildings before you have the pops to work them is objectively bad. Not just due to the strata movement you've mentioned, but also because you'll be paying upkeep for districts/buildings you're not fully utilizing.

You're better off just checking your planets once in a while and build something new once you're close to having unemployment, or even just be lazy and only build stuff when the unemployment icon comes up.

 

[Jotoco]

The new system prevents mindless clicking, you only upgrade if you need the resource and can support it.

But then if you want only a couple new specialist jobs and you open 5 at one time, even if you instantly disable 3 you end up with 3 unemployed pops for a few years. That is because they instantly promote and will not go back to their original job. You can only build or upgrade when you want to immediately fill up every single specialist job.

 

[FleetingRain]

Man, if I worked in a mine and suddenly I got a job opened in the closest research lab, do you really think I'd waste away my youth requiring more minerals? No, you can bet I'd be the first in line to show them my resumé, the unemployed can take my old job if they so wish.

 

[The Boz]

Man, if I worked in a mine and suddenly I got a job opening in a research lab, do you really think I'd waste away my youth requiring more minerals? No, you can bet I'd be the first in line to show then my resumé, the unemployed can take my old job if they so wish.

Are you qualified?

 

[The Boz]

The new system prevents mindless clicking, you only upgrade if you need the resource and can support it.

Number of clicks has increased, though. Number of buildings and upgrades is ~the same, but you now often click to *check* the system, and decide not to do anything.
Overall, a slowdown for no gain.

 

[Badesumofu]

it feels like I am getting punished for developing my world. In a game, you want your players to feel rewarded when expanding, when advancing your empire, but you made a system that makes you feel like 'o shit my economy is crap becaue I tried expanding it', and it's poor psychological design. Compare to Europa Universalis or Crusader Kings: build a building, you now gain more ducats/gold each month.

You aren't being punished for expanding, you're being punished for inefficient play. Don't build the building until you have the population and resources to support it. Now, it's funny you mention EU4 because that game as of a few patches ago actually does punish you for expanding with an unavoidable stacking corruption bonus for being too big unless you expand into the predesignated expansion allowed zones. Stellaris rewards expansion, but only if you do it efficiently and thoughtfully.

Your economy isn't crap because you tried to expand it, it's crap because you did a bad job of trying to expand it. Instead of mindlessly spamming more mines and clicking upgrade arrows you actually have to put some thought and planning into building your empire now. Personally I couldn't be happier.

 

[FleetingRain]

Are you qualified?

You just need to show confidence, they'll hire anyone.

 

[FonVegen]

Are you qualified?

Remember that one Pop equals an unspecified number of people. And among all POPs in the worker stratum there are bound to be plenty of those who did achieve a higher education but couldn't find a specialist job, now waiting for an opportunity to open up. On highly specialised forge worlds you can also say that every citizen receives the standard education to operate the alloy forges, with the same going for tech worlds and industry worlds.

Yes, the games simplifies that a lot, but I don't want to have a four year delay on my economy, especially not in war times.

 

[The Boz]

Remember that one Pop equals an unspecified number of people. And among all POPs in the worker stratum there are bound to be plenty of those who did achieve a higher education but couldn't find a specialist job, now waiting for an opportunity to open up. On highly specialised forge worlds you can also say that every citizen receives the standard education to operate the alloy forges, with the same going for tech worlds and industry worlds.

Yes, the games simplifies that a lot, but I don't want to have a four year delay on my economy, especially not in war times.

And so, that one dude gets a job, and the untold millions immediately shift over to provide support for him... and when he gets fired, nobody thinks about going back to the food mines? At all? For *decades*?

 

[WhapXI]

My strategy to deal with this sort of thing is to only build something on a planet when there are unemployed pops. Generally I'll prioritise building a district, but if no resource districts are needed, then I'll fill a building slot. Many planets have building slots lying unoccupied, at least until districts are full, and that's okay. One all the resource districts I want or need have been built, then I start building city districts if possible and filling building slots with specialists.

 

[Cat_Fuzz]

'I really would like a new house, but instead of saving the money to get it, I'm gonna get a loan I can't afford to pay for it...'

 

[The Boz]

'I really would like a new house, but instead of saving the money to get it, I'm gonna get a loan I can't afford to pay for it...'

You forgot the "we're sorry, we can't hire you in order to give you money to pay off your debt now, you have debt."

 

[mag_zbc]

Making the player feel punished for building a building or upgrading a building is a bad thing.

Instead of mindlessly clicking on upgrade arrow every time it appears, the system now expects you to think before you click. How is that bad?

 

[nfmarque]

But then if you want only a couple new specialist jobs and you open 5 at one time, even if you instantly disable 3 you end up with 3 unemployed pops for a few years. That is because they instantly promote and will not go back to their original job. You can only build or upgrade when you want to immediately fill up every single specialist job.

You can maintain the specialists, just make sure to have the raw materials, i like to have my smoke filled industrial world churnging consumers goods to export.
Look around for good deals, for example consumer goods 1:2 (export 1 consumer good for 2 minerals)

 

[Eled the Worm Tamer]

Number of clicks has increased, though. Number of buildings and upgrades is ~the same, but you now often click to *check* the system, and decide not to do anything.
Overall, a slowdown for no gain.

Can we please, please, please do away with this tedious reductave dumbing down that is 'numer of clicks' which only serves to hide a more meaningfulland potentialy move valid criteque. It really dosent convince any one, and its just hiding the more valid issue that people only have the capacity to make so many choices in a given span, and too many can result in what can be termed choice fatiuge (Or for those of us who ran into this via being or knowing someone who is, Autistic 'running out of spoons'. )

I'm just so sick of seeing the 'too many clicks' argument I'd rather french kiss a running woodchipper at this stage and it does nothing what so ever towards the evolution f the debate or the resolution of the issues in any way that wont strip out other peoples fun.