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kaufenpreis

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The first major shortcoming, was the lack of a fleet air arm. Since the commander in chief of the Luftwaffe Göring insisted that all planes are part of his Luftwaffe, the German Navy was dependent on his willingness to provide proper resources.
 

gladius2metal

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The first major shortcoming, was the lack of a fleet air arm. Since the commander in chief of the Luftwaffe Göring insisted that all planes are part of his Luftwaffe, the German Navy was dependent on his willingness to provide proper resources.
copy paste?
 

Gil galad

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Was there a fleet in need of an air arm in the third reich? They probably could have profited from an coastal command type of organisation but the kriegsmarine having it's own airforce, what use would that have had?
 

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Was there a fleet in need of an air arm in the third reich? They probably could have profited from an coastal command type of organisation but the kriegsmarine having it's own airforce, what use would that have had?
Seconded.

The Luftwaffe actually did a pretty good job in a lot of ways. But they didn't have the resources or the technology to compete with the USAAF, and during the Blitz, their comparable strength against the RAF was overwhelmed by the defensive nature of the Battle of Britain.
 

gladius2metal

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Was there a fleet in need of an air arm in the third reich? They probably could have profited from an coastal command type of organisation but the kriegsmarine having it's own airforce, what use would that have had?

there was a discussion about this already in my comment section: fleet air arm is probably not the best term, but I took 1:1 from the article the video is based on. "Naval aviation Arm" would probably more suited, but I am no native speaker, so not sure which would be correct term. What was clearly missing were planes for recon and attack missions UNDER the control of the German Navy, no need for an aircraft carrier.

Coastal Command would also make sense, but the RAF was structured very functional, whereas the Luftwaffe wasn't, don't know about the Kriegsmarine. Still, the necessary part would have been: Control by the German Navy or non-prick attitude from Luftwaffe.
 

Gil galad

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there was a discussion about this already in my comment section: fleet air arm is probably not the best term, but I took 1:1 from the article the video is based on. "Naval aviation Arm" would probably more suited, but I am no native speaker, so not sure which would be correct term. What was clearly missing were planes for recon and attack missions UNDER the control of the German Navy, no need for an aircraft carrier.

Coastal Command would also make sense, but the RAF was structured very functional, whereas the Luftwaffe wasn't, don't know about the Kriegsmarine. Still, the necessary part would have been: Control by the German Navy or non-prick attitude from Luftwaffe.

Good luck with that when der Herman is at helm.
 
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DoomBunny

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Of course, this all assumes that the Germans build up for a naval air war and still end up conquering France so easily...
 

gladius2metal

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Of course, this all assumes that the Germans build up for a naval air war and still end up conquering France so easily...
considering how much planes and pilots they wasted in the Battle of Britain. 200-300 planes were probably way "cheaper" than the Tirpitz or even the Graf Spee
 

BBBD316

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I think there were structural and tactical errors that plagued the LW. Had they developed a true jet fighter earlier then they may have had a better chance in the BoB.
 

DoomBunny

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considering how much planes and pilots they wasted in the Battle of Britain. 200-300 planes were probably way "cheaper" than the Tirpitz or even the Graf Spee

Maybe so, but as I said, your plan supposes that naval air power will be useful against Britain. It is therefore reliant on the conquest of France to secure Atlantic coast bases, requiring a lot of (somewhat irrational) foresight on the part of German thinkers. You also have to consider what other compromises might be demanded by the various services.

There's also the problem of the Allies shifting balance to meet this new threat. Of course one might bomb Britain at the same time, but my point is that the enemy will react.

That's a general problem with a lot of alt-histories. They overlook the human causes of the historical path and also the reaction of others to the changes in events, often assuming that others carry on as historical despite no (or little) in-universe provocation to do so.

I'm not suggesting the plan wouldn't work, rather that it is not so simple.

I think there were structural and tactical errors that plagued the LW. Had they developed a true jet fighter earlier then they may have had a better chance in the BoB.

Well yes. Then again if the US had the bomb and a practical delivery system in 41 things would also have gone a little differently.
 

gladius2metal

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Maybe so, but as I said, your plan supposes that naval air power will be useful against Britain. It is therefore reliant on the conquest of France to secure Atlantic coast bases, requiring a lot of (somewhat irrational) foresight on the part of German thinkers. You also have to consider what other compromises might be demanded by the various services.
well, they never intended or assumed to have a quick victory in France, so yeah, I agree with you, but the Kriegsmarine asked for a long time for planes and Göring didn't provide that is the key issue. Furthermore. the Fw200 (or a better replacement for that matter) had a range long enough to also operate from German bases.
 

DoomBunny

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well, they never intended or assumed to have a quick victory in France, so yeah, I agree with you, but the Kriegsmarine asked for a long time for planes and Göring didn't provide that is the key issue. Furthermore. the Fw200 (or a better replacement for that matter) had a range long enough to also operate from German bases.

Whilst technically you could operate from German bases, I doubt you'd get good results. Such flights would have to run the gauntlet of Allied air defences (for a very long period) in and out over a long distance trip. You'd have had massive losses for negligible effect.

But yes, Goering was a knob by pretty much any measure save his wine cellar.
 
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Beagá

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I think there were structural and tactical errors that plagued the LW. Had they developed a true jet fighter earlier then they may have had a better chance in the BoB.

Wat

Maybe they could have built the A-bomb first eh? Please tell me that was sarcasm.

That makes no sense if it wasn´t. Germany was overextended, they didn´t have a big airforce and big navy because they couldn´t. Those things cost money and even historical german military build up had unprecedented military spending in peace time. If they invested 30% of their GDP it would still take time to see results AND the allies and everyone else would react and spend more too.

People, even nazi germans, still operate under normal human limits... Industry doesn´t come from magic or mouse click buttons, maybe playing less video games would help because... seriously.
 
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BBBD316

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I was only talking about the me262 and had the Germans been luckier with its development then it would have been a useful addition in 1942.

Obviously this would have been well ahead of schedule but a few small issues with the engines and meddling by certain higher ups meant it really came into service too late.

I didn't mention the bomb.

Once again I understand that you can say the same thing for the Allies, it was just if the German airforce was going to be small it had to be technologically superior to stand a chance.
 

nerd

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I was only talking about the me262 and had the Germans been luckier with its development then it would have been a useful addition in 1942.

Obviously this would have been well ahead of schedule but a few small issues with the engines and meddling by certain higher ups meant it really came into service too late.

I didn't mention the bomb.

Once again I understand that you can say the same thing for the Allies, it was just if the German airforce was going to be small it had to be technologically superior to stand a chance.

I would not call time between engine overhauls of no better than 50, and realistically as low as 10 hours as minor, nor that of feeding to much throttle too quickly could cause engine failure.
 

Easy-Kill

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I was only talking about the me262 and had the Germans been luckier with its development then it would have been a useful addition in 1942.

Would it have been a smart idea of the luftwaffe to transform the ME323 into a bomber?

No, it would have made more sense for Germany to continue to develop current aircraft technology to make them better instead of chasing uber-weapon pipe dreams. What they needed was something to combat the P51, Spitfire and Tempest, not some crazy unproven concept which had a high performance but required heavy maintenance and servicing. What they needed was better propeller engines, better radar performance and better strategic vision.
 
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DoomBunny

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Would it have been a smart idea of the luftwaffe to transform the ME323 into a bomber?

Given that the thing was about as survivable as a petrol tank made out of matches, no.
 
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