There is a reason why societies with economies that are focused on more advanced jobs tend to be freer while economies that focus on raw resource production tend to be more repressive.
Why slaves can work only in worker stara?
- Thread starter Archael90
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Putting aside historical context and how useful slave researchers are, etc. etc. etc...
Gameplay-wise, it would be really nice to have a granular control over slaves, give them selective rights, and then have them interact with the crime/stability/factions system in a more involved way.
Gameplay-wise, it would be really nice to have a granular control over slaves, give them selective rights, and then have them interact with the crime/stability/factions system in a more involved way.
I don't know that that necessarily follows if you look at the full scope of history.
I'd generally agree with you that in this historical moment, the most technologically advanced societies tend to have lots of personal freedom.
I don't think I'd be willing to extrapolate that throughout history though.
Ancient Greece was the intellectual center of the mediterranean world, but the city states made extensive use slaves; democratic athens had more slaves than she had citizens, sparta was essentially a garrison state with a captive population of helots to support its military caste, etc.
The intellectual centers of the later middle ages were in the north african and spanish caliphates with their extensive slavery, rather than in the more egalitarian (but backwards) north.
The slave soldiers of the ottoman empire (Janissaries) consistently beat the "free" armies of europe really up until the siege of vienna, etc.
I'd love to agree with you on this one, because I *want* to live in a free society, and hence I want to believe that free societies are inherently more productive/creative/advanced than the opposite, but I don't know that the historical record supports that premise.
There was the caste system pretty much does this, and devs removed it.
Rule #1 of high-tech slaving: don't give your slaves the chance to build nukes. So scientist is out. If you could automate the system to prevent them from outsmarting it, you wouldn't need the researchers.
Rule #2 of high-tech slaving: don't give your slaves the chance to build weapons. Artisan is out.
Rule #3 of high-tech slaving: don't give your slaves the materials they need to make warships. No foundry work.
Need I continue?
Rule #2 of high-tech slaving: don't give your slaves the chance to build weapons. Artisan is out.
Rule #3 of high-tech slaving: don't give your slaves the materials they need to make warships. No foundry work.
Need I continue?
There are plenty of examples in history of slaves not just building weapons but actually making up the bulk of some of the worlds militaries.
The ottoman jannisaries for example were military slaves of the sultan; they were the elite troops of the empire rather than fodder and, for much of their history, fought extremely well.
Egyptian Malmalukes were, similarly, slave soldiers, generally not from the native egyption population.
If you can actually give weapons to your slaves and put them in the field in organized armies, and still keep them under control, I can't think why it would be an unsolvable problem to use them in military R&D.
There, for better or for worse, plenty of ways to motivate people to work for you that don't involve paying them. You can threaten them with torture, you can threaten their family, you can addict them to drugs and withold them for non obedience, you can convince them of the rightness of your theology, you can starve them unless the aquiesce, etc.
Point being that "slave" doesn't mean stupid, ill educated, or necessarily disobediant, it just means "not free". Its possible to be not free, but still be smart, well educated, and highly motivated.
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There's ways to go around these problems.
1) Artisans dont necessarilly build weapons.
2) Oversight is a good thing
3) Mind control/propaganda/drugs/etc is always an option
4) Having more ruler/enforcer pops that are always of the ruling species could make up for the ratio of free/enslaved pops to stay balanced.
I don't disagree with your point at the end. However, none of your examples are chattel slavery; they all could hope for their descendants' - if not their own - freedom. Given that Stratified Economy and Battle Thralls exist, it was implied to me that the original poster wanted Chattel Slaves to be working these other positions. That strikes me as a very, very bad idea given what they could do with the gear they would have to be provided. People who are stripped of freedom in perpetuity and kept at basic subsistence levels should not be allowed access to nukes.
1. If you're building things with high tech nanofactories, you're only a button press from making the components of a gun at any given time. It'd be functionally impossible to keep the factories running if they couldn't build things that can't be turned into weapons. A gun is, at its core, just a tube and a propulsion system. Block those components from being made and your factory is worthless.
2 - 4. That much oversight means you're going to be paying tons of upkeep. At that point, why bother with the slaves?
Again, if you're not trying to argue for badly-treated slaves being given access to high-tech tools and equipment, then honestly, Residence, Stratified Economy or Battle Thralls are more what you're after.
Not really. You need to look up how the city that made the atomic bomb worked. The secrecy is so severe that each worker is given just an individual task where they have no idea what pressing the button even does but they know that they need to press it when X happens.
Because my main species is a bunch of lazy hedonistic arsewholes that think work is beneath them?
Real-life example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka
So, in theory, slaves could be put in specialist strata (in non-xenophobic slaver empire?). You can already give your slaves decent living standards, so why not? Maybe even apply "slave oriented" variant of stratified economy for slaves, so they may work in awful conditions as workers and good ones as specialists (but not as rulers)?
So, in theory, slaves could be put in specialist strata (in non-xenophobic slaver empire?). You can already give your slaves decent living standards, so why not? Maybe even apply "slave oriented" variant of stratified economy for slaves, so they may work in awful conditions as workers and good ones as specialists (but not as rulers)?
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I think that they should rename battle thralls to something that really reflect that they are educated slaves and that would resolve the "problem" (which is one only because people don't realize battle thralls is what they want GP wise).
Before 2.2 Battle thralls were pretty terrible at ressourses generation and were only efficient for armies.
In 2.3+ they are average at everything and, being slaves, can gain a lot of bonus to production from slavery tech, governors, etc... which make them pretty good.
Before 2.2 Battle thralls were pretty terrible at ressourses generation and were only efficient for armies.
In 2.3+ they are average at everything and, being slaves, can gain a lot of bonus to production from slavery tech, governors, etc... which make them pretty good.
Slaves not always want to be free. If you are treating well your slaves they would work for with all their heart, and if they would really believe that there is no way in the universe that they cant be free, they would just accept that.
Unfortunately you can't battle thrall an unenslaved species, which means it doesn't work with slaver guilds. I agree that it's a good option in many other cases though.
It should work if you are autoritarian and xenophobe and have alien slaves.
But yeah battle thralls don't work with stratified society. Which makes sense with how Stellaris work. Either all specialists of a specie are enslaved or none. And having only your rulers as free pop seem a very specific fringe case.
Stratified society is just a living standard (that gives slaves 0 CG) and doesn't have anything to do with slaver guilds civic aside from both requiring authoritarian ethics. You CAN have battle thralls on stratified living standards AFAIK. The only restriction is that the species has to be fully enslaved- if it's only 40% enslaved (which is the case with all species that aren't 100% enslaved under slaver guilds rules) then the only selectable slavery types are domestic servitude and chattel slavery.
There is already code for "dumb" specialists and "smart" specialists for robots, I don't see why slavery can't leapfrog off that.
Mamluks and Janissaries aren't really the best examples, as they we less slaves and more "slaves," that had nearly all of the perks of freedom, they just couldn't change their day job.
Heck, they even ended up effectively (or in the Mamluks case, literally) running the nation that "owned" them for a while.
Mamluks and Janissaries aren't really the best examples, as they we less slaves and more "slaves," that had nearly all of the perks of freedom, they just couldn't change their day job.
Heck, they even ended up effectively (or in the Mamluks case, literally) running the nation that "owned" them for a while.
De Jure Janissaries might have been slaves. But De Facto they were not.
Stellaris Slaves are De Facto Slaves. That is where the lower maintenance and political power comes from.
And this doesnt means that they have to be miners, or technitians, and cant be artisans or metalurgists. They should be able to produce chairs, or operate metallurgical machines while having worst living standard than miners of free pops.
Making chairs propably falls under "Miner" jobs. Just look what can all be bought with "Minerals".
Meanwhile making Alloys is literally your military weapons production. You do not enslave the people doing your literal weapons production.
At best they will sabotage you (even unintentionally). At worst you gave them the weapons to rebel against you.
"Where did you get a Atom Bomb?"
"Are you kidding? I am the guy leading the project that makes them for the Genii."
Stargate Atlantis
